Q & A with The Vet

Horse Lameness

Dr. Teskey,

I am not a vet and I know you are a very busy doctor. I live in Atlanta and have an 11 year old TWH who has been lame off and on for a year. I have read a lot of your articles this week and have not been able to find a vet in the Athens, GA area that has your philosophy.  Although holistic medicine in conjunction with traditional medicine is making some in roads here. Two and a half years ago or so Zane was being trimmed in the "natural trim " paradigm. 

A year and three months ago he almost exploded {unlike his personality} and went lame. He was diagnosed at that time with moderate intermittent upward patellar fixation {R>L} and right femoropatellar synovitis. At that time the lameness specialist convinced me to apply 3/8 " flat rim pad to thoracic shoes to improve Zane's topline with Rockers on the pelvic shoes.

His condition in my opinion has deteriorated and is now chronic with regard to his stifles. The lameness specialist has stated the only thing that will "fix" him at this point is cutting his inside ligaments on the stifle joints.  Honestly, I am horrified by this assessment.  He will never again be able to rest while standing.  I currently changed from full board {stall} to paddock board 24/7 with both my TWH's and I can't imagine Zane would be relaxed enough to lie down and sleep much at night even with Mac, the sentinel, with him. 

Zane all the while has been getting hill-work, exercise, chiropractic sessions, massage therapy, hock injections with HA/steroid combo and had three acupuncture sessions. In the end he is tripping more, forges with each step and there seems to be a complete disconnect between his feet and legs and his brain. Pete Ramey has agreed to take over hoof trimming.  As for the stifle issue, am I being overly dramatic to think think of this procedure {cutting ligaments} as being too radical with negative "side effects"?

Exchanging one group of problems for another possible group {exhaustion, possible arthritis, anxiety} seems counter productive.  I've made mistakes with Zane and I sure would hate to make another one.  Do you have any articles about stifle problems and subsequent pelvic issues?  I am still searching the net.

Many regards and Admiration for your resolute philosophy, despite some fallout you may get from those not ready to contemplate a new way.

Looking for Answers, Renee


Hi Renee,

 

This patellar problem you're describing is most often due to poor conditioning/poor muscular tone and function in the upper hind limbs (quadriceps muscles especially).  Allowing the horse freedom of movement in a pasture situation and/or increasing conditioning exercise to strengthen these muscles (and the whole body) has been curative in every horse I've dealt with that had this problem.

 

The surgery is a temporary and wholly inadequate fix for these horses.  They develop arthritis and patellar (knee cap) fractures later on due to the instability in the joint caused by cutting this important tendon.

 

There could be a neurologic problem as you hint at.  If this is causing loss of muscle tone and development, I suspect you may be unable to get reasonable healing.

 

How fortunate for you to have Pete work with you on this horse.

Dr. Tom

Interference of hooves--from a trimmer

Dear Dr. Tom,

I am trimming a 6 year old paint that had horribly run under heels in shoes when I got him 4 months ago.  He has been completely sound through the process and his feet are looking better, but every once in a while he still scrapes his front heel bulb with his back hoof.  I trim every three weeks instead of four because I'm a little timid.  His concavity has gotten much much better and his heels are backing up, but they are very short.  His front angles are up to 50 degrees now and his back are just a couple degrees higher.

This doesn't happen often, but boy does it look like it hurts!  He scrapes the skin off his heel bulb!  Is there something obvious I am missing from my trim?  Do you have any suggestions on how to correct this?

Thank you for your help!

Holly

Holly,

 

My biggest suspicion would be the toes are too long (perhaps on all four feet).  If they're too long up front, sometimes the horse doesn't get the hoof off the ground quick enough to escape injury from behind, and if they're too long behind, they can reach forward and grab the heel of the fore.  Of course being long behind can also delay breakover behind.  There's probably as many interference injuries caused by inadequate body/muscle conditioning as well.  There's some horses with nerve problems that don't control their limbs appropriately, causing themselves injury.

 

Dealing with underrun heels, one of the most successful trimming techniques involves shortening toes (from the front aspect of course).  So perhaps you can deal with both these issues simultaneously?

 

Dr. TT

Handling While Trimming

Hi,

My name is Jess and I have read a recent article on what you advise horse owners who are dealing with navicular to do for trimming.  I have a beautiful black 8 yr old quarter horse mare who is experiencing pain in her front feet, and I am so frustrated.  I feel so bad for my horse.  I got her back in May.  After speaking to the original owner he pretty much told me over the 8 yrs he's had her he didn't do too much with her feet, but somehow before I got her and after she left this original owner acquired a tendon injury right above her left from knee.  She has had a lot of changes in the last 8 months- moved 3 times, separated from her mother, her herd she was with for the past 8 yrs. She was already favoring her left leg when I got her and somewhat stiff in the front.  The Vet says it's not founder, not a bad knee because we took xrays, but range of motion on the left side isn't normal due to the injury.  I suspect this injury brought on what the vet feels is navicular symptoms due to compensating for the injury.  She did not get vet care for the tendon injury when it occurred. The advice I got from this vet was to put corrective shoeing because he suspects navicular, but I'm a naturalist and it makes no sense to put more trauma on  feet that are already painful.  My farrier is coming out this Friday, he's been in the business 20 yrs and he's really good and patient. I would like him to try the wild horse trimming technique which makes more sense. He did a good job last time. He says her feet look good and did not see any abscesses the last trimming. Of course my other horse experienced quite a bit of discomfort in the trimming process last time because of her pain.  Is there a suggestion that can help relieve some of this pain while trimming at this point.  It took an 1 1/2 last time the Farrier trimmed her.  She gave her back feet just fine, but it was obvious the front feet hurt her.  Would you recommend a sedative, we used the twitch of couple of times, but I hate knowing she is in pain while doing this.

Thanks,

Jess

 

Hi Jess,

 

Trimming should not take more than 30-40 minutes.  If it's taking longer, stop for the day and do the other hooves another day.  Trimming should NOT make the horse more sensitive.  If it does, TOO MUCH hoof was trimmed off all at once.  Go slower with the trimming and don't trim the soles with the hoof knife at all (the soles should be trimming themselves as the horse walks/moves around between trimming sessions).

 

Hoof boots with inserted Comfort Pads are needed to get the horse moving and provide comfort during this time.  Visit the EasyCare website to learn more.  Putting a boot on the opposite hoof while the other is being trimmed works well to give comfort, or standing on some carpet or other soft dirt/etc.

 

I do not sedate horses to trim them.  Again, if a horse is too painful to stand to be trimmed, use pads and/or wait until the horse is not as sore.  Rarely is it necessary to trim a horse lying down or to use drugs.  This all varies with trimmer experience, of course.

 

Twitching is not a good idea either.  Trimming should be a time to bond with your horse, not a time to cause them more pain.  If you do a search for "hoof trimming natural handling" you'll find lots of good links.

Also, get the book by Pete Ramey titled "Making Natural Hoofcare Work for You"...and keep reading all the sites on the internet about trimming...

 

Take care,

 

Dr. TT

Hoof Trimming

Hi Dr. Teskey,

I have a twelve year old quarter horse 16.2hh.  I bought this horse when he was seven months old.  A month after I bought him he fractured his coffin bone in his right front foot.  After about a year of stall rest I began hand walking him.  He recovered fully.

My Vet at the time suggested because he had suffered from a fractured coffin bone to keep shoes on his front feet.

Well I’ve done that his whole life. I really, really want to go barefoot BUT I’m afraid he will fracture his coffin bone again.  We all know at 12yrs of age he wouldn’t recover like he did when he was only eight months old.  I’m “afraid” to take the shoes off.

I don’t know where to find a good bare foot farrier that can help me?  What do you think?

I ride only for pleasure- mostly weekend about two hours per day.  His paddock is flat and free from rocks.  He is kept outside 24/7 with excellent shelter free choice hay and water.  He’s on a mineral supplement with beat pulp.  He is in excellent health.

It is getting harder to keep the shoes on.  I want to do what’s best for my horse.

Mary

Hi Mary,

 

Whether your horse is fully recovered from the fracture or not, there wouldn't be any reason to think he won't eventually do perfectly fine without shoes.  In fact, horses with coffin bone fractures heal faster without shoeing them.  There is no good reason to shoe a horse that has suffered a coffin bone fracture for lots of reasons.

 

Take care,

 

Dr. TT

Tender Feet

Hello

I was wondering if after having my horses feet trimmed is it possible his feet were tender?  He was very hesitant to walk toward where the farrier did his feet and then, no matter what we tried, we just couldnʼt get him to lunge.  He just stood there and refused to budge.

Kindest regards

M

Hello M,

 

Certainly your horse could have been trimmed too much.  It sounds like this was the case from your description.  I have a "trim manual" you can find on the EasyCare website that might be of help to your farrier. 

 

Take care,

 

Dr. TT

Gelding with Mild Club Foot

Dear Dr. Tom;

 

I recently purchased a 4 yo gelding with a mild club foot.  He had shoes on (barely) and I have removed them and done a barefoot trim.  I rasped some heel off the club foot and plan on gradually lowering the heel. The sole is extremely flat and the heel is contracted.  He is a little sore on that foot but the leg is not sore nor the tendons excessively tight. I have not been able to find information in barefoot trims and club feet.  Please enlighten me.

 

Ron

Dear Ron,

Sounds like you're off to a good start there.  Trimming these hooves is a challenge, and I'd say in general that people tend to try and remove too much of that heel in the long run.  A  little at a time is a good idea.  You'll reach a point where it seems the horse won't put up with any more depending on the amount of exercise.  If you visit some of the yahoo hoof trimming groups you can find lots of information from previous posts.  Go to yahoo.com and search in the "yahoo groups" for "trimming".

Dr. TT

Rehab Thru Barefoot Trim

Hi,

First thanks in advance for your help.

I have an 8 yr old gelding that presented acutely lame on the right fore about 1 month ago.  We gave him stall rest for a few days before seeking vet care. After 1 week he saw the vet who first diagnosed an abscess and took x-rays. He was tender to the palpation area on RF leg at hoof/hair line.

After developing x-rays, vet called to say possible fracture to the pastern bone.  Returned for more films. 

Horse was continued on 24/7 stall rest and results of other films sent to NC State Vet School radiology dept for diagnosis.

Vet

School

said bony calcification between P2 & P3.  They suggest steroid injection. 

Can barefoot trim help this horse?

He has improved vastly but still gives on RF when circled but is much better at straight trot.

PB

Hi PB,

Certainly natural hoof care helps horses in general, because it respects their natural abilities to both heal and then perform.  There is a good amount of information available now that demonstrates how well horses do when they get their hoof health back.  I have treated many, many horses with fractures and calcifications/ringbone type changes and have always had some improvement in their condition.

Take care,

Dr. TT

FREEDOM FOR THE FEET : Stepping out of steel shoes in style

We are intertwined, heart, mind and soul with these animals.

They perform for us with a work ethic rarely seen in human circles, and become capable of so much more when we allow their feet to function properly.

Click here to read the rest of this article by Dr. Teskey.

Need To Use Boots?

Hi,

 

I am new to barefoot having recently bought a youngster who has never been shod.  However, she did have slightly neglected feet with a lot of flare and overgrowth on the inside of the fronts but normal wear on the outside, this had caused a toe crack in both front feet.  After one pasture trim with my farrier I have started caring for her feet myself however, I am concerned that apart from a little at the heels there never seems to be any wall growth.  I am only using the rasp to tidy up the outside edge of the walls, remove a little off the heels and keep the remaining flare tidy on the insides.  I can see improvement in her stance and she is certainly sound on the road and gravel driveway.  The toe cracks are not getting any worse.  She is currently ridden 2-3 times a week on the road for 40-60 minutes each time and is out at grass the majority of the time.  I do bring her in for about 4 hours each afternoon.  Her feet are quite flat and I can see sole callous on them.  She also is wearing the hoof wall at the toe more, at first this was on the outside but now does seem to be becoming more even.  I am concerned that if I start to ride her more I will over wear her feet and don't know how to tell if this is happening and if I need to use boots.  I have always been used to seeing shod horses and it seems very strange to look at her feet and see that she is clearly walking on a large area of her soles.  I know there is a ways to go with her feet.  There is still a lot of misshaped hoof on the inside walls that doesn't show in the pictures.

 

My main concerns are over wearing the feet, how to keep them mustang rolled when they are already so short and whether boots will cause unnecessary strain elsewhere if she doesn't really need them.

 

I have now pulled the shoes on my other horse and am transitioning him in boots partly due to the fact that after riding the mare barefoot I could feel every bone shaking step in the metal shoes but also because her feet stood up to the wet winter mud so much better.  In fact every time I see a shod horse now the feet just look all wrong.  He has to wear boots because his feet are weak from shoeing but I don't like the bulkiness of them, on the flat he strides out really well but going uphill they really seem to make the pasterns clunk.

 

S

Hi S,

 

It certainly sounds like you're on the right track with the horses and hooves.  I think you'd be happy with a pair of boots, especially if you insert a pad inside that will massage and stimulate the soles and frog.  There's some dome-shaped comfort pads that EasyCare is currently testing.  Click here to read how you can test out a pair of these new pads.  I've noted a much faster return to better form and function when using the pads inside the boots.  Other than that, it'll just take some more time for the hooves to toughen up.  When it's rainy/wet, make sure you've got an area the horses can keep out of the mud, as standing in the wet will set you back.  Also, over time the bones inside the hooves will be positioned higher, allowing you to keep your toe roll in better shape due to better solar concavity.  Keep up the good work!

 

Dr. TT

when is there too much bone loss for unsuccessful barefoot rehab

Hi Dr. Teskey,

 

I am a professional trimmer with a successful practice.  There is one current challenge I would love to post to you.  I have a client with a newly rescued horse.  He is 5 and retired for over a year from roping (heading) due to 'navicular' diagnosis.  Long story short his hooves were a wreck!  Typical HIGH heels and very forward foot.  I have trimmed him 2x and he is improving, but does have rough days too.  His owner had him X-rayed a few days ago and the vet called me to tell me this horse needs 'ridiculously' high heels to feel better and the usual bute and isoxoprene with wedge shoes,etc.  Sigh.  Well I listened and thanked her and got off the phone.  There is considerable navicular bone loss according to her.  As a matter of fact she said if she had seen ONLY the X rays she would have expected the horse to be much more lame (like I said he is improving).  My question is at what point of bone loss is a barefoot recovery not likely?  The owner is beside herself.  It is very hard for people to go 'against' the norm and their vet.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!  I feel I haven't had enough time to encourage the healing of this hoof, but if we never get a chance to see these cases through how do we ever know?  Do you know of any case studies?

 

Sincerely,

 

P

Hi P,

 

Navicular bone "loss" isn't common.  Coffin bone loss is as you know with chronic founder.  I'm wondering if the veterinarian just means navicular bone changes/degeneration, but I suppose she could be seeing a large amount of pitting or cysts which could mean "loss" to her, rather than remodeling, which is more likely.  Keep in mind that the NB changes are in the largest sense resulting from changes in forces/footfall/circulation/heel structures atrophy.  Whether the horse has soft tissue scarring is the real important stuff, but x-rays are poor to find these changes.  More and more MRI studies are being done and we're finding impar-ligament, collateral ligament, joint capsule, scarring.

 

Five years old, just a kid not even "grown up"!  Give it time and see how good you can get him.  Age is on your side on this one.  Pads inside boots are magical for these cases...have you seen the domed pads from Easy Care?  I'd say that I've yet to see a case of lameness NOT get better with natural hoof care approach/boots.  Of course there are many that are dead because that wasn't good enough.  Most of those were due to human factors not living with the horse's needs.  There's lots of case studies out there.  Some are on the 'net, and others, like mine, have never been published!  I'm working on that.

 

Take care,

 

Tom T.