Q & A with The Vet

Barefoot Questions

Dr. T,

Could you please be kind enough to answer a few questions?  What training course for barefoot trim do you recommend?  Are some courses credits transferable between groups?  What do you think about abrasive trims?  Is it possible to get a ring bone horse comfortable with boots?  What boots do you recommend?  Feet are pretty good, a little under slung do to long pastern.

I really appreciate your time.

Sincerely,

H

 

 

Hi H,

 

I don't follow anyone school of thought on the trimming.  I've taken bits and pieces from them all and used what works in my part of the world here at the ranch.

 

There are no formal credits or accreditation for any of the trimming courses/workshops.  It's all too young of a movement and unorganized in that regard.  Which may not be all bad, for as soon as some sort of formal accreditation were to come along, it might be too easy to push a certain type of trimming which would end up hurting some horses.

 

I don't have much experience with the abrasive trimming, but I think it is probably just fine depending on all those things that come up when trimming the hooves.

 

Horses with ringbone very often do extremely well barefoot.  There's a few reasons why they improve.  Boots with pads to start and then even without boots later help these horses get going just fine.  Check out EasyCare to learn more about what hoofboots have to offer.

 

Dr. TT

Buldge at the Coronary Band

Hello Dr. Tom!!

What a wonderful opportunity to be able to ask you questions, thank you so much!

My horse, that is going on 8 months now of being barefoot and receiving barefoot trims, is doing really well, but on one foot (LF), he gets a bulge at the coronary band from time-to-time.  I am not sure why this happens and am wondering if there is some kind of pressure from beneath that needs to be relieved to settle that area.  The area is at the 10:00 spot on the LF.

Any insight into this would be wonderful.  When he was about 4, that entire area on the hoof wall bulged as well but it eventually grew out.  He is 7 now and he has not bulged at the hoof wall since but as I mentioned, at the coronary band.

Thank you in advance!!

J

Hi J,

 

I would be suspicious of a chip fracture off the top edge/extensor process of the coffin bone or a foreign body of some type.  If it's not causing lameness it may very well be just an innocent bystander as the horse lives his life.  It could be pressure from beneath as you mention, but doesn't quite sound as likely.  X-rays may give you more useful information.

 

Dr. Tom T.

Tony the Pony

Dear Sir,

 

My 3 year old niece and 5 year old nephew were given a 2 year old pony in December 2006.  We have let him roam freely in the pasture, but I have noticed he is experiencing some difficulty with ambulation.  His hooves appear to need trimming but my Daddy (an old farmer) thinks he is foundered.  I am a nurse and have experience with humans but must admit have no knowledge of equine species.  The pony's original owners were looking for a home with kids who would have more time to spend with the animal and he is actually a very sweet and very kind pony.  My Daddy states there is no treatment for "founder" except trimming of the hooves, and the pony will probable always be "lame".  Surely if we have techniques that replace a man's heart we must have some treatment that can help alleviate the discomfort this animal is experiencing.  Some one advised me you were a horse expert.  I hope you can take a few moments to offer some advice and guidance of what we should do next.

 

Thank you for your time,

 

S

 

Hi S,

 

Mostly it's important to find someone knowledgeable with natural hoof care in your area.  Many of the websites out there have lists of trimmers.  Do a computer search for "barefoot trimmer" and see what you come up with.  Only two years old, I'd bet a good amount that you'll be able to get the pony back on the road to health and soundness.

 

Dr. TT

Foundered miniature donkey

I have a miniature donkey and his front hooves have been turning up for the past month. Is this from being foundered or because our conditions are so dry?

He has never been this way since my becoming the owner in Oct.2005.

 

Thank you!

D

D,

 

It sounds to me like you need someone knowledgeable to trim your donkey.  Hooves that turn up like that need to be carefully trimmed by someone knowledgeable on natural hoof care.  Usually NOT a farrier that doesn't understand what the hoof is doing inside.

 

Dr. TT

Please Need Guidance

Dr. T,

You see, on September 2006 I bought a 5 year old Paso fino mare. She was never shod before and I think it needs corrective hoof trimming.  When I see my son ride her I've noticed in the front legs she's toe out (even when standing) and in the hind legs when the hooves come down they're hitting the ground toe first and through the inside of the hoof (I've seen scratch marks
on each of them as if they're rubbing).  Another thing is that on her right hind hoof (when looking at the horse face to face) it doesn't have much heel, so when the Farrier nails the shoe there's an open area and the heel is on the "air".  My son rides her two or three times a week on pavement (yes, we're allowed here) and it wears the shoe on that hoof in about two weeks.
The other hind hoof is not far behind as far as wearing.  Just to give you an example, she was shod at the beginning of February on a Saturday, we rode her that day, next Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.  When she came in from the ride on that Friday everything was fine and since we live in hot weather we
usually hose her off starting from the legs up to cool her before taking her to the stall.  When we finished hosing her off she starting limping from both her front hooves in a real bad way.  We administer anti-inflammatory shots for a couple of days, pulled the shoes off her front hooves, and waited a month.  After that she was shod again and everything was fine again until this last Monday when my son was riding her and they were coming in into the barn.  She started to limp from one of the front left hooves.  I've asked different farriers and each one will give me his own idea of what they think the problem is.  And lastly, I can't find corrective hoof trimming farriers in my area and would like to learn to do it myself if possible .

Sorry for the long e-mail I just wanted to describe my mare's situation the best I could because I need someone knowledgeable to give me a direction.

Thanks,
Rogelio

Hi R,

 

Do a quick search on the computer for "barefoot horse trimming" and you'll get a lot of information.  You'll need to find someone in your area to help guide you if possible.  Also it would be good for you to get a pair of hoof boots for those front hooves.  After you read some more stuff, get back with me with more questions if you need to.

 

Take care,

 

Dr. TT

Mini Horse

Hi Doctor Tom,

 

I have a mini and he is having a hard time with his legs and feet.  I had the same farrier for 4 years and the past 6 months or so he hasn't been doing a good job.  I had the vet out to take a look at both of my minis hoofs and right away she said get a new farrier.  I did and she is great.  But I do believe that maybe she has been taking too much off at once.  Now the little guy is having trouble standing for long periods of time.  He lays down a lot, still eating and drinking though.  I have had the vet out 3 times now.  We took x-rays and his coffin bone is rotated a little bit.  But before I got him he did founder.  Now they are saying he has laminitis we wrapped his front feet and put down some foam too under the wrapping.  He is on bute and doxycycline.  I also went to the feet store today and got some numotizine and put that on his hoofs and the pads of his feet wrapped baby huggies on his feet and duck taped them.  Should I also rub this stuff on his legs too?  I only did the front feet.  My vet told me that the back legs and hoofs don't work as well doing this.  But it seems to me that the back legs are hurting him more.  Should I do the same to the backs also?  And rub this on his legs too?  How long does something like this take to go away?  I do have to say he is a bit better but not 100% yet.  He is still laying down a lot.  He stayed in the barn for a few days and now he is coming out and laying outside in the sunshine.  If you could let me know what you think.

 

L

Hi L,

 

Mini horses that develop laminitis/founder are usually quite overweight, so getting this under control is very important.

 

Small changes made to their hooves offer BIG changes to the way they feel.

 

Diet should be scrutinized and should consist of grass-based forage.

 

There are a ton of websites out there that you can read up on laminitis and treatment/trimming, and you'll want to follow a barefoot program to avoid further damage from shoes or glue on things.  Do a computer search for "laminitis barefoot" and you'll be reading a long time.

 

I wouldn't use the numotizine.  The antibiotics are generally not a good idea either, unless you're dealing with some other infection somewhere.  The bute is generally only a bandaid as well.  Correct trimming and using little boots/booties offer the best relief.

 

Certainly there is no reason to be overly worried.  Laminitis and founder is simple to treat once you learn the basics.

 

Dr. Tom T.

Barefoot Movement

What is the greatest difference you see in the barefoot ‘movement’ of today compared to when you first started? Do you see the trend growing in popularity and if so, why? What’s changed in our horse society that is making it more receptive now?

Click here to read Dr. Teskey's answer to that question and more!

If you have a question for Dr. Tom you can email him or post a comment here and he will respond as soon as he can.

Frustrated about Wall Separation

Hi Dr. T

I have been corresponding about my horse who has been barefoot
since Sept 2006 and is in the transition period.  Prior to the set up trim the diet, exercise, and turnout was the same.  But 5 months into the trim the white line is separated and one point actually looked frilly.  He is not metabolic and the horses not receiving the trim have no separation in the same living conditions.  Would it be safe to say that the trimmer is not doing a good job or is it too early in the transition period to change?  The feet look worse from the white line point of view, but remain concave and the wall integrity  is thicker.

At what point do you look for another trimmer?  I am so confused and frustrated that I am just thinking of going to a pasture trim or a new farrier.  How do you know what the normal state of a horse's
transition should be?  How can you rule out metabolic issues or mechanical laminitis from the wear and tear of a horse going barefoot that has never been barefoot in its life?

D

 

Hi D,

 

I'd say you'd have to give it at least a year, maybe two years before you could be satisfied the walls weren't going to stop separating.

 

The "trim" is not important in the big scheme of things.  If your trimmer is having to do very much trimming at all, the horse is not moving enough/not getting enough natural exfoliation.

 

Keep a close eye out for infection.  Something tells me you very well could have some in hooves like you describe.  You might not see it unless you really get picky and check it out.

 

Dr. TT

Horse Hoof Question

Hi, I hope you can help with this.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  My friend has an 8 yr old TB gelding.  He previously has been sound until now.  Back in March 2006 she had his feet trimmed, barefoot not shod.  A friend had taken the horse as his mount for a clinic in April 2006, about 2 1/2 - 3 wks later, (while at the clinic, we don't know why) he had him trimmed again.  He said he was to long on his toes- then he chipped a hoof.  We may never know why he had the clinic farrier trim again, or why that farrier would trim a horse like that.  But the horse was trimmed extremely short in the toe.  It has been 10 months and no new growth in the toe.  His hooves are extremely hard and squaring out.  The toe is so hard, you can not affect it with hoof nippers.  Her current farrier says it was cut to short into the (lamini?  I hope I am using the correct word)  The horse is currently on Biotin supplements.  He is always gimpy on his front end.

She has had this horse since he was 18 months old.  Putting him down is the last thing she wants.  But over the last month or so he seems to be in more pain.  Have you ever heard of this problem?  Is their any type of correction. 

Her farrier is trimming him to take weight off the toe so it will grow, but nothing seems to be working.  He is barefoot. 

Any ideas would be great.  My friend is desperate, so we are all looking for answers for her.

Thanks,

M

Hi M,

This doesn't sound like that severe of a problem.  It could be that the farrier just doesn't know how to proceed with a case like this.  Sometimes a trimmer/farrier will trim an area on the hoof to match another area for length, adding insult to injury.  In other words, it's a bad idea to try to get all areas to "match" when one area has been already over trimmed.  Finding someone more knowledgeable will be important, or researching more about the hoof on the computer may also allow you to get the horse back in health.  Ask around and/or search on the computer for natural hoof care trimmers that might be in your area. 

I would need pictures to consult with you very effectively on this case.  If you'd like to do something like this, we can talk about arrangements.

Stay positive, the horse can most often heal from these problems.

Dr. Tom T.

Abrasive Trim

Hi Dr. T.,

I trimmed my little guy yesterday, and used Jaime Jackson's yellow hoof gauge.  I hadn't used it in awhile - my mentor said its better to use a triangular gauge and that the angle should be 30 degrees at the hairline.  For the heck of it, I used Jaime Jackson's gauge and was a bit upset because T's left foot was a little less than 45 degrees.  His right foot had a  higher angle of 48 degrees so I did a bit too much according to Jaime's yellow hoof gauge and the other foot is higher.  He seems okay - not limping but I don't know if I should make the right foot a little bit lower to even out the discrepancy.  Now the 45 degree angle foot, left front was the foot with the slight rotation.  The other foot had a little more contraction not like it was though since he's been barefoot now for 1-1/2 years.  He is still not 100% rideable. 

So have you developed any new opinions on the abrasive trimming approach?  What do you think I should do?  Is 45 degrees an unnatural angle that could cause damage?  Is it better to go by the 30 degree hairline rule or use for example the Jaime Jackson gauge?  I  have spent so much money on this foot stuff.  I have had my work checked every three months.  One thing I will say is that since I have been doing the abrasive trimming, T's feet do seem much harder because I've been more easily able to keep the heels lower, etc.

Two trims ago, my horse was doing great.  I was leaving a lot of the sole there.  I really screwed up on my last trim.  I took off too much from his back feet.  I don't know what to do.  He is wearing boots right now.  I wanted to ask your opinion about the Jaime Jackson hoof gauge versus a straight 30 degree triangular gauge at the hairline.  What do you think is best?  I'm going crazy right now because my little guy was doing great--tough soles, etc. except now I have totally got him off balance.  I had good mojo going - was fairly conservative then my abrasive trimmer guy checked my work and said I was too conservative and took off too much.  I told him it made my horse sore and he said "yes, it is up to the horse to tell us what's too much" and he said don't take off as much as he had.  Then I did my horses feet and for some reason, I screwed up.  The back feet may be shorter heels than the front.  He is limping a little bit.  How do you think I should correct this?  Also, I noticed from back a year ago, his frogs looked much better. 

I like doing the abrasive trim - but I am still confused about the ideal angle.  So is it the 30 degree hairline or Jaime Jackson's little yellow hoof gauge?  I am biting my nails on my horse's feet because I do not want to ruin his ligaments or back.   Please tell me what you think.  So next time in four weeks, I should not do the back heels but the mustang roll though?

What about the apex of the frog to the middle - isn't that still tapered? 
What about the bars?  What about the mustang roll and flares?

Thank you for your advice, it is still nerve-wracking because I want to do the right thing.

- C

Hi C,

I don't use any hoof gauges.  The coronet/hairline is very soft tissue and changes easily and is not a hard and fast landmark I feel we should use  guide trimming.  Using sole plane/exfoliating plane works best for the horse because it's what each foot on each horse is doing IF it had the opportunity to put on that mileage.  Most hairlines end up at 25-30 degrees, but I don't measure them other than just to document what they end up being.  Of course I don't like to see a horizontal hairline and I know what is right for each horse after getting to know them, but I would NOT dictate a specified angle for a horse.  Doing so is just giving in to a measurement and doesn't make you pay attention to what each hoof is doing.

The area you removed too much from will come back quickly.  Just allow a little time.  I don't trim frogs at all other than loose pieces.  No tapering or pyramiding.  Let the frogs be where they will.  Don't take bars below the sole period.  In fact, leaving bars to trim themselves offers many advantages to us guessing where they should be.  It's scary to think of how many horses we've all hurt by taking bars down (because now it's looking like so much of the sole growth is coming from the bars!)  Bars will trim themselves much like the sole and frog.  Let them be.  Think about how many times we've taken bars time and time and time again and they keep popping back.  This is because the horse needs them there.  When something keeps "suddenly growing back," it's most often because it should have been left there.

Rolling toes still seems to be the best thing since sliced bread for our domestics, but not so aggressively as to remove much dorsal wall.  Stay low on the capsule.

This is pretty different stuff compared to what we thought we once knew.  But then again when you have a chance to just think about it and watch the hooves, it makes much more sense than ever.

You're worrying too much about making things "just right."  I know looking at and working on hooves is fun and exciting, but you need to back off and leave the tools alone and ride more often, even if it's in boots and pads for the next few days or weeks.  If you think you're going to make the hooves right through your trimming, you're mistaken.  You'll cause more problems than you solve by "getting into the hooves" with your tools.  Try to relax and just enjoy being with your horse, doing different things between trims every four to five weeks.  I'm giving you permission to neglect the hooves a bit more, because I know in your case it will likely allow some things to even out, especially if you keep the horse moving.  Think of it as "benign neglect," and "tincture of time".

Dr. Tom T.