Q & A with The Vet

Crooked Frogs

Hello,
            I live in Pennsylvania and I own a 10 month old filly.  I purchased her when she was 5 months and she had never been trimmed.  Her hooves were not overly long but soon after I got her I had a farrier trim her.  I’ve had her trimmed three times now.  This last time the farrier told me that she had crooked feet in the rear, and her right hind was worse than the left hind.  He said that it was a conformational flaw and that it could have been caught earlier if she had been trimmed before I bought her.  He said that if I regularly trim her as I am, she should be OK. 
As I pick and inspect her feet, I see that the hooves are oval but not noticeably crooked, however, underneath, the frogs point slightly to the side rather than to the toe and the distance from the sides of the frog to the sides of the hoof are slightly different.  I have searched on the internet for any info on crooked frogs but can’t find anything.  I’m concerned for her future soundness.  Could you give me some idea of what this means or maybe some questions that I might ask for more clarification of how serious this is and how it can it be fixed?
Thanks, K

Hi K,

There probably is some twisting and/or imbalance going on with the hind legs.  Certainly it's important to trim consistently, but the better way to get things to straighten up is to provide enough movement that she trims herself a bit more.  Or, if she moves enough, the farrier should be able to tell where to take the plane of the sole without causing soreness.  Not necessarily an easy situation to deal with.  Usually you can't trim your way out of this sort of imbalance.  The horse needs to move as much as possible to develop better legs and hooves.  In other words, you can trim and trim and keep the hooves as straight as you can and the problem won't go away.  Movement and correct growth and strength will make the lasting difference.

Dr. TT

Metabolic/ Laminitic?

Hi Dr. T,

In Sept. 23/06 my horse's feet were shelly, cracking and the current farrier was putting the nails in at least 2" above the normal nail line when shoeing. I had the opportunity to go barefoot with the barefoot trim (Jamie Jackson) rolling the foot edges, not trimming the frog and leaving the bars.  Cruiser's feet were concave and the chipping stopped.  When the ground is hard or gravelly, he has EasyCare boots.

Recently, I have noticed some changes. On the left front where he was diagnosed with Navicular syndrome, the wall seems to be separating on the side.

On the right foot the inside corium seems to be breaking. The trimmer who is doing the barefoot trim is telling me that it is metabolic, yet all he is on is hay, farrier's formula and biotin.

The trimmer is an awesome trimmer, well trained in the Jamie Jackson trim but has a tendency to overemphasize metabolic and laminitic issues.  I would prefer not to jump to conclusions.  I emailed the pictures to the farm vet as well but I thought that you would have a tendency to see more abnormalities than him related to transition horse feet.

The weather we having been having is rainy and wet, when usually we have snow and ice and piles of it.

The split is slightly separating but the outer horse wall has not split. I have put pads in his Easyboot Bare’s.

Anymore thoughts, we'd be so appreciative… Thanks,  D

Hi D,

Nice set of pictures there. Good detail and good angles.

Hopefully in a few months I'll be able to say, "You've come a long way, baby!" But right now you've got many, many miles to go to transition and rehabilitate your boy. He has been significantly laminitic from the looks of those hoof walls (ridges are quite prominent), walls are thinned, frogs are atrophied (shrunken), soles are quite thin, bars contracted along with entire hoof capsule (hooves are more oblong rather than rounded). Toes are especially separated and run out in front, contributing to this oblong conformation. The spots you're pointing to in the pic's are most likely what is termed "white line disease," which is usually fungal infection of the inner hoof wall, not the white line itself. Disinfecting with a Lysol solution (two tablespoons per gallon of water) will help combat this as well as helping the frog areas clean up. These are all changes that are run-of-the-mill type changes from shoeing, so nothing really exciting, which is good, but significant damage nonetheless. The level of performance that you'll achieve with him in a year depends directly on the amount of mileage you're able to put on him during his healing time. The trimming is not the most important part of the puzzle by any means.  Of course there is a certain amount of damage inside the hoof with various tissues, but most times it isn't severe enough to keep horses from doing most everything the average horse owner wants to do.  His newer growth looks better than the old, but it hasn't been long enough since pulling the shoes to get as accurate a picture.  Technically, the corium doesn't "break," but you'll see separation outside the white line and a "stretching" of the tissue, which we call a "laminar wedge".

So, why the laminitis?  Could have been mostly from the previous shoeing and you'll not have as much of a problem now.  Could be hormonal imbalances. Could be sugars, even in the grass hay (Click here to visit Safergrasss  to have a mind-blowing good time.) I would venture to say that overemphasizing the metabolic/nutritional things isn't a problem. We need more trimmers that are aware of that. Indeed the trim isn't real important IF a horse puts on enough miles every day (because they trim themselves, there's nothing better).

Look at more pic's of hooves, like on Pete Ramey's website Hoof Rehab and other hoof sites to get a better idea of how different his hooves are right now compared to what they could be like a year from now.

Stuff to chew on. Keep up the good work,

Dr. TT

Caudal heel pain/ Laminitis?

Hello Dr. Teskey,

Thank you for your reply.  I did go "searching" as you suggested.  I had figured there had to be some bad along with the good as in any medication.  When I tried using the BL for his inflammation/pain it was very early in the process - before I had acquired a somewhat proper hoof form.  I started to decrease the AspirEase by 1/2 and add the BL once again.  That was holding him today.  So good news.  Do you have any other suggestions of anti-inflammatories (AI) if the BL fails?  My only thought for any AI was to encourage him to be weighting the foot more correctly to encourage healing.  Any thoughts?  Thank you again.

C

Hi again, C,

I don't use much bute at all.  I use boots with various combinations of pads and careful trimming to bring relief to horses with hoof and leg problems.  I make sure there is at least one or two other horses in the "herd" to keep the lame one moving about (not bullies, but easygoing horses), and keep them in as big of an area as possible.  Spreading the grass hay out to make them move to get it, and putting mineral and water sources at different areas to encourage movement.  All these things are tricks to getting the horses to put on more mileage.  I would say that if you feel you "have to" use Bute for more than two to three weeks that there is likely something not right in the big picture, or the horse has some other issues that are causing pain besides the hooves/feet.  It sounds like the horse should spend some time in the boots with pads to help him get going better.  Breaking the cycle of pain is very important in helping some horses move on with their lives!

Dr. TT

Caudal heel pain/ Laminitis

Hello Dr. Teskey,

I am a student of Martha Olivo's and my dear friend Linda Ables (Reno, NV) is my mentor for trimming my own horses.  I have recently adopted a lame rescued mule.  His past hoof care or lack of, history is not known.  He did arrive at the rescue organization (RO) with 2 new shoes on the fronts which were pulled the following day.  I offered to take him in as a foster from the RO he was living at.  I felt I had a pretty good chance of returning him to some level of soundness after all the attempts they had tried had failed to give him any relief except the bute (4 grams per day) they had him on.  Their CA vet took two sets of films (a month apart) and found no evidence to suggest why the mule was lame.  I had only seen a photo of the mule on the RO website and I saw the hairline on all 4 feet to be ground parallel.  I felt that was a good place to start looking as far as the lameness problem went.  Linda and I have since reviewed the films and we feel that P3 is showing a slight ski tip on both fronts.  Now 6 mo. later, under my care and Linda's guidance, I have his heels down, hairlines are at 30 degrees, frog is on the ground, bars are slightly passive, breakover is pulled back, have a nice mustang roll on the toes, have him in boots with the foam pads, and I apply huuf magic daily in case of fungus.  He has 24/7 turnout on 5 acres with friends and free fed of grass hay.  One bad issue here is that someone really hacked on the soles.  So, his soles are still very thin.  He is making great improvement though.  I have really relied on the USED hoof pads to be my guide.  He is still landing toes first but quarters have been sharing the weight bearing for about 2 weeks now.  Heel imprints showed up slightly on the used pads today for the first time.  Soles are still far from sharing weight bearing load.  Myself, I try to stay away from bute.  I have tried BL pellets but that didn't seem to hold him.  I have had him on AspirEase 2, 500 mg per day and this keeps him comfortable.  My question is, is there information as to side effects of prolonged use of aspirin in an equine?  Thank you in advance for listening and your reply.

C in NV

Hi,

Yes, there are LOTS of studies out there and many scientific reports documenting many different problems in horses and most other animals when using NSAIDS long term (aspirin products).  One you can do a search on is "right dorsal colitis" for horses.

Also keep in mind the "efficient" nature of donkeys and mules and many horses, and so free choice grass hay can even be excessive sometimes.  Adding some straw in to the diet and limiting the grass on occasion can really help bring some of these more metabolically efficient animals in to balance and produce better hoof growth along with healthier blood sugar/insulin regulation.  Ensuring adequate vitamin and trace mineral supplementation is also important, as many parts of the Western USA are quite deficient in Selenium, Copper, Phosphorus and Vitamin A and E.

Keep up the good work on those hooves,

Dr. TT

Foot Growth

Hi,

Are there any products or minerals that can improve hoof intregrity?  My quarterhorse has been barefoot and trimmed since Sept 23 but the hoof wall remains thin. Will this improve with going barefoot naturally, or can I enhance it with supplements?

Thanks.

Hi there,

The hoof supplements generally make the hooves grow faster, but not necessarily with better quality.  In fact I've seen poorer strength, but lots of it, with many supplements.  An overall proper diet that is high in fiber, low in sugar, moderate in protein, along with a vitamin/mineral supplement to complement this will grow as much hoof as a horse needs.  What grows a stronger, tougher hoof is movement and work on the kind of surface the horse is expected to live and perform on.  Also keep in mind that seeing any change in hoof wall thickness will take at least three to four months, and sometimes seven or eight, depending on the work schedule/demand.

Dr. TT

Twisted Feet

Dear Dr. Tom,

I have a question about the philosophy for trimming my 6 yr. old Mustang gelding. When I bought him, he had been neglected for 3 and a half years. His hooves were really oblong and turned up at the toe.  He had not been trimmed or handled.  I have now had him 6 months and he has been trimmed and or filed 5 times.  Now that I am starting to see what his feet really look like.  I can see that his front legs are slightly crooked.  When he walks he lands on the outside hoofwall first then rolls forward to the toe.  I thought that horses were always supposed to land fairly flat to distribute the weight evently.  My question is, should my farrier/trimmer try to trim and file to encourage the flat landing or should he follow natural conformation?  My goal is to keep him barefoot. We use Old Macs on the trail.  I ride 4-5 times a week and am training him for dressage and trail rides. So far, he has been sound with that much riding but I know improper trimming-philosophy can creep up and cause crippling problems. Thank you for considering my question and I look forward to your advice.

Thank you,
W

Hi W,

Given the adult age of your horse, I would be more careful with trying to force the hoof to come straight.  The adults aren't as "plastic" as the youngsters.  Still, I would "push" a little so as to not give up anything you gain.  Doing too much will cause you more trouble than you want.  I've tried really tweaking hooves like this and have regretted it in the long run.  The fact is, the horse is going well, and you shouldn't do anything that will affect this.  The beauty of just keeping going and putting on more mileage is that you'll more likely get the hooves in to a better shape.  Less movement will make the deformities WORSE in a case like this.

So, basically trim his hooves the way they "want" to be trimmed and just "push" SLIGHTLY more to encourage forces to be more correct, but mostly just keep hittin' the trail.  You and the horse will be more happy in the long run this way.  Given enough movement and regular hoofcare, you'll likely have some very normal looking hooves before too long.  Don't force things too much.  It is much better to go a little slower and not cause discomfort while you're rehabilitating such hooves.

Let me know how it goes,

Dr. Tom T.

Pony Founder

Hello,

I have a pony that is terribly foundered.  I could keep his feet trimming under control until recently.  The back hind feet are about 7 inches long and are starting to twist, the front feet are just as long.  I was wondering how a person could or can trim them down.  I have heard folks talk about sawing them.  What are your thoughts on this and if a person could saw them down how far should I go ??
Thanks Much

Hi there,

Trimming these kinds of hooves can certainly be challenging, but the landmarks used for trimming in general are the same.  Once you know what you want to end up with, it's not too difficult.  Yes, I've used a saw on occasion, but good nippers work also.  Animals that are overgrown like this are NOT normal trimming cases.  They are so overgrown due to neglect, and their hooves can take many months to return to a more normal shape.

Dr. TT

Mare with navicular and using boots and pads

I had written to you about my mare who was recently diagnosed with navicular.  I purchased some easyboot epics which I have used a few times when I have ridden on gravel.  I have continued to ride my mare barefoot on softer ground as often as I can.  I had my farrier come this past week and do a balance trim.  I had him drop her heels a bit (just above the live sole, I didn't want to start with any big changes).  I also had him lower her hoof wall to just above her sole and rocker her toes (better breakover) and put a mustang roll on walls of her hooves. I lent him some current articles that I had on natural trims and my new Pete Ramey book.  He said he will keep an open mind, and when he returns in 4 weeks and we can make more changes as needed.  I recently purchased some 1/4 inch comfort pads to give my mare a bit more cushion in the boots.  I had looked at pair that belongs to a fellow boarder and decided that the 1/2 inch seemed too bulky hence the decision to use the thinner pads.  I rode my mare today for about a half hour and she wore the pads down almost to the point of wearing a hole in the pad at the hoof wall.  Am I doing something wrong????  I had removed the heel straps too on the boots post my last email from you.  I did remeasure her feet post her recent trim and her feet are still in the parameters of size (1) boots.  Her right foot is slightly smaller than her left foot and that pad is more worn than the left foot pad????  But neither pad will last more than a few rides at this rate.  Both her feet are the same height at the heels and at the hoof walls so I am confused????  Any insights???  Help! 

Hi there,

 

Glad you're able to do some riding.  I think you'd find the thicker pads will work OK after they're smashed down a little bit.  They conform to the soles and frog well and can be used for a long time without falling apart.  I use the thin pads in pieces to further pad a frog or a toe in certain lameness cases.

 

That's cool that your farrier is willing to listen and learn!

 

Try some thicker pads, even though to begin with (first day or so), they will be slightly bulky.

 

Dr. Tom T.

Abscessing and pedal osteitis

I am new to the barefoot methods and have been working with a very good trimmer.   My question is why is there a high incidence of abcessing in barefoot horses?   And how does that relate to pedal osteitis?  I've spent hours doing extensive review on the internet and have found no information on pedal osteitis.   Thank you for any information or advice you may offer.

 

Hi there,

 

My experience in Arizona has been that abcessing occurs most commonly in severe laminities cases and cases where the trimmer takes too much hoof off (overtrimming).  This leaves the sole thin which bruises easily even on soft ground.  This can lead to abcessing.  Pedal osteitis is inflammation of the coffin bone, almost always the lowermost edges closest to the sole.  If the sole has been overtrimmed or the walls lowered too much or both, these bone edges become damaged through concussion, bruised and inflamed and undergo bone remodeling.  Loss of bone is nearly always the result.  Horses I deal with RARELY abcess, so I think you'll need to look closely at what might be happening with the trimming and the terrain and how wet your environment is.

 

Is your "very good trimmer" a Strasser-trained trimmer or farrier trying to do natural trimming?  Strasser-trained trimmers are very often too aggressive because of what they are taught, and they overtrim hooves very commonly.  Hopefully this is becoming less and less of a problem as we learn more about the bad effects of overtrimming and why we must leave a good amount of material on the hoof.  Especially the bottom.  Abcessing is common in horses trimmed aggressively, and nearly absent in horses that are allowed more time to adjust to barefootedness.  Some will say that abcessing is the "bad material" coming out of the hoof as it gets better circulation, etc., but I have found that it is due to overtrimming. 

Does that help?

 

Dr. TT

Hooves trimmed too short

Dr. Teskey,

My farrier was here two days ago.  I thought he cut the hooves a little too short.  The next morning my horse could hardly walk.  His two front hooves were hot.  Legs are not swollen.  He's walking as though on pins and needles.  Should I keep him in, or should I turn him out?  There is sand and tiny stones in the turnout area.  Your earliest reply would be most appreciated. Thank you.  With kind regards.

Hi there,

 

You need some boots for your horse.  Click here to check out EasyCare's website.  In the meantime, get some rubber padding, or cut out a pad from a computer mouse pad and use some duct tape to hold them on his hooves.  This will give him some fast relief.  I would let the horse wander around if he wants to, let him decide.

 

Have your farrier order a book on natural hoof care, like "Making Natural Hoofcare Work for You," by Pete Ramey.

 

It will work out, but you want to try to avoid this kind of soreness after trimming.  It means that too much hoof was trimmed off, period.

 

Take care,

 

Dr. Tom T.