Q & A with The Vet

Sore footed horse walks comfortably with Easyboot Epics and EasyCare Comfort Pads

Need To Use Boots?

Hi,

 

I am new to barefoot having recently bought a youngster who has never been shod.  However, she did have slightly neglected feet with a lot of flare and overgrowth on the inside of the fronts but normal wear on the outside, this had caused a toe crack in both front feet.  After one pasture trim with my farrier I have started caring for her feet myself however, I am concerned that apart from a little at the heels there never seems to be any wall growth.  I am only using the rasp to tidy up the outside edge of the walls, remove a little off the heels and keep the remaining flare tidy on the insides.  I can see improvement in her stance and she is certainly sound on the road and gravel driveway.  The toe cracks are not getting any worse.  She is currently ridden 2-3 times a week on the road for 40-60 minutes each time and is out at grass the majority of the time.  I do bring her in for about 4 hours each afternoon.  Her feet are quite flat and I can see sole callous on them.  She also is wearing the hoof wall at the toe more, at first this was on the outside but now does seem to be becoming more even.  I am concerned that if I start to ride her more I will over wear her feet and don't know how to tell if this is happening and if I need to use boots.  I have always been used to seeing shod horses and it seems very strange to look at her feet and see that she is clearly walking on a large area of her soles.  I know there is a ways to go with her feet.  There is still a lot of misshaped hoof on the inside walls that doesn't show in the pictures.

 

My main concerns are over wearing the feet, how to keep them mustang rolled when they are already so short and whether boots will cause unnecessary strain elsewhere if she doesn't really need them.

 

I have now pulled the shoes on my other horse and am transitioning him in boots partly due to the fact that after riding the mare barefoot I could feel every bone shaking step in the metal shoes but also because her feet stood up to the wet winter mud so much better.  In fact every time I see a shod horse now the feet just look all wrong.  He has to wear boots because his feet are weak from shoeing but I don't like the bulkiness of them, on the flat he strides out really well but going uphill they really seem to make the pasterns clunk.

 

S

Hi S,

 

It certainly sounds like you're on the right track with the horses and hooves.  I think you'd be happy with a pair of boots, especially if you insert a pad inside that will massage and stimulate the soles and frog.  There's some dome-shaped comfort pads that EasyCare is currently testing.  Click here to read how you can test out a pair of these new pads.  I've noted a much faster return to better form and function when using the pads inside the boots.  Other than that, it'll just take some more time for the hooves to toughen up.  When it's rainy/wet, make sure you've got an area the horses can keep out of the mud, as standing in the wet will set you back.  Also, over time the bones inside the hooves will be positioned higher, allowing you to keep your toe roll in better shape due to better solar concavity.  Keep up the good work!

 

Dr. TT

when is there too much bone loss for unsuccessful barefoot rehab

Hi Dr. Teskey,

 

I am a professional trimmer with a successful practice.  There is one current challenge I would love to post to you.  I have a client with a newly rescued horse.  He is 5 and retired for over a year from roping (heading) due to 'navicular' diagnosis.  Long story short his hooves were a wreck!  Typical HIGH heels and very forward foot.  I have trimmed him 2x and he is improving, but does have rough days too.  His owner had him X-rayed a few days ago and the vet called me to tell me this horse needs 'ridiculously' high heels to feel better and the usual bute and isoxoprene with wedge shoes,etc.  Sigh.  Well I listened and thanked her and got off the phone.  There is considerable navicular bone loss according to her.  As a matter of fact she said if she had seen ONLY the X rays she would have expected the horse to be much more lame (like I said he is improving).  My question is at what point of bone loss is a barefoot recovery not likely?  The owner is beside herself.  It is very hard for people to go 'against' the norm and their vet.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!  I feel I haven't had enough time to encourage the healing of this hoof, but if we never get a chance to see these cases through how do we ever know?  Do you know of any case studies?

 

Sincerely,

 

P

Hi P,

 

Navicular bone "loss" isn't common.  Coffin bone loss is as you know with chronic founder.  I'm wondering if the veterinarian just means navicular bone changes/degeneration, but I suppose she could be seeing a large amount of pitting or cysts which could mean "loss" to her, rather than remodeling, which is more likely.  Keep in mind that the NB changes are in the largest sense resulting from changes in forces/footfall/circulation/heel structures atrophy.  Whether the horse has soft tissue scarring is the real important stuff, but x-rays are poor to find these changes.  More and more MRI studies are being done and we're finding impar-ligament, collateral ligament, joint capsule, scarring.

 

Five years old, just a kid not even "grown up"!  Give it time and see how good you can get him.  Age is on your side on this one.  Pads inside boots are magical for these cases...have you seen the domed pads from Easy Care?  I'd say that I've yet to see a case of lameness NOT get better with natural hoof care approach/boots.  Of course there are many that are dead because that wasn't good enough.  Most of those were due to human factors not living with the horse's needs.  There's lots of case studies out there.  Some are on the 'net, and others, like mine, have never been published!  I'm working on that.

 

Take care,

 

Tom T.

Barefoot Questions

Dr. T,

Could you please be kind enough to answer a few questions?  What training course for barefoot trim do you recommend?  Are some courses credits transferable between groups?  What do you think about abrasive trims?  Is it possible to get a ring bone horse comfortable with boots?  What boots do you recommend?  Feet are pretty good, a little under slung do to long pastern.

I really appreciate your time.

Sincerely,

H

 

 

Hi H,

 

I don't follow anyone school of thought on the trimming.  I've taken bits and pieces from them all and used what works in my part of the world here at the ranch.

 

There are no formal credits or accreditation for any of the trimming courses/workshops.  It's all too young of a movement and unorganized in that regard.  Which may not be all bad, for as soon as some sort of formal accreditation were to come along, it might be too easy to push a certain type of trimming which would end up hurting some horses.

 

I don't have much experience with the abrasive trimming, but I think it is probably just fine depending on all those things that come up when trimming the hooves.

 

Horses with ringbone very often do extremely well barefoot.  There's a few reasons why they improve.  Boots with pads to start and then even without boots later help these horses get going just fine.  Check out EasyCare to learn more about what hoofboots have to offer.

 

Dr. TT

Laminitis, white line, natural hoofcare

I have read with interest your articles on dealing with chronic laminitis using natural hoofcare.  After getting my first horse and spending about three weeks with him, I found out he had a very advanced case of white line disease in his front left hoof.  After almost 13 months of dremmeling, packing with medicine, ducktape, vetwrap, soaking, handwalking, etc., we were able to grow the hoof out and shift the bone back into place from its slight shift forward.  BUT, he has continued to have problems with no sole, white line here and there, abscesses, etc.  After 19 months, I went on vacation, and they called me after three days and said that he was lame.  We had taken X-rays of his front right hoof two months before I left and the vet said he could go out without his boots.  He had apparently run off all of his soles in a week and had bone on the ground on BOTH front hooves.

I have since found out that he has substantial bone damage in both front hooves and have taken him to a veterinarian who did venograms and has a farrier who specializes in taking care of lame horses.  They have put rail shoes on him for two months, and he has grown 2 mm of sole.  I do not want to keep him in these shoes, as I think they will aggravate his white line disease and I don't think he will ever make any progress with shoes elevating him so high off the ground, but I am a novice, clearly.  I have read quite a bit on natural hoof care and feel it makes the most sense, even if I have a tough case.  I have used boots for my horse ever since I have had him because I have always felt they were better than shoes.  I had my original farrier (who I respect greatly) pull off his shoes a long time ago.  BUT, that being said, in this area, when you change veterinarians, you MUST deal with THEIR farrier, or they do not deal with you on these issues.  It is a very difficult situation.  I have talked to my original farrier at length about it and he understands my desperation.  I hoped to return to him when we had enough sole to take off these shoes and continue on.

There is so much out there to read and so many opinions that I am horribly confused about what is the right thing for my horse now.  There aren't many practitioners like you in my area that I know of.  And I do not know enough to trust myself to trim my own horse with his problems.  He is a great horse, and we have had each other for over two years now and have been able to ride only twice, so he deserves for me to make the RIGHT decisions now.  I simply do not know where to turn.  The road I am traveling on with these rail shoes does not feel like the right one to me, and my instincts tell me that I need to take these shoes off and put boots back on him, but I need some sole for him to walk on and he has been more comfortable in the last two months.  I am so afraid that I will make the wrong decisions and lose him altogether after all the time we have fought all these problems together.  Sorry to write you such a long email, but your article has inspired me to learn more about natural hoofcare.  I just hope I still have time and can do that.  We take x-rays every month before they put his shoes back on, so I know exactly how much progress he makes every month, and it isn't much.  He isn't getting enough exercise, but he is being turned out for about three hours in the evening.  I bring him in before the dew falls.  I also jog with him which I know sounds odd.  I go over in the day about twice a week and we jog around the property together since I can't ride him.  He seems to enjoy it!  HA!  Those dressage people think we are pretty strange.

 

Hi there,

 

You're right about the shoes of course, they'll only delay honest healing and cause further damage while they are on your horse.  Do get him back in to the boots, and use some pads inside them.  See the "comfort pads" that Easy Care company makes they are really nice and make a horse feel really good, especially with thin soles like that.  Click here to visit their website.  And if he feels better he'll want to move more, and if he moves more he'll heal faster.  Also, the trimming should be done very carefully.  Anyone who takes off too much sole will really set you back.  Make sure you're nutrition program is appropriate (grass hay or grass pasture).  Avoid the lush, green grass (not sure where you live).  If you happen to live close to me (Arizona), I would say bring him to me.  If you'd like to send pictures, x-rays, info, etc., we can do a consult over the email.  I can offer you many more ideas and specific recommendations when I have pictures of the horse and the hooves and a complete history with all other information on feed, environment and exercise schedule.

 

Get those pads in the meantime and get him in boots.  Don't trim much of anything other than maybe round the edges of his hooves when you take those shoes off.

 

After a few months using boots, assess where you're at and see if you're doing better with him.  If he continues to get worse, it may be the bone damage is too severe to heal to an adequate degree.  You need to try, though, and like you said, you owe him the best chance to try and heal, and those shoes aren't doing anything in that regard.  They are doing quite the opposite.

 

Take care,

Dr. Tom T.

 

Mare with navicular and using boots and pads

I had written to you about my mare who was recently diagnosed with navicular.  I purchased some easyboot epics which I have used a few times when I have ridden on gravel.  I have continued to ride my mare barefoot on softer ground as often as I can.  I had my farrier come this past week and do a balance trim.  I had him drop her heels a bit (just above the live sole, I didn't want to start with any big changes).  I also had him lower her hoof wall to just above her sole and rocker her toes (better breakover) and put a mustang roll on walls of her hooves. I lent him some current articles that I had on natural trims and my new Pete Ramey book.  He said he will keep an open mind, and when he returns in 4 weeks and we can make more changes as needed.  I recently purchased some 1/4 inch comfort pads to give my mare a bit more cushion in the boots.  I had looked at pair that belongs to a fellow boarder and decided that the 1/2 inch seemed too bulky hence the decision to use the thinner pads.  I rode my mare today for about a half hour and she wore the pads down almost to the point of wearing a hole in the pad at the hoof wall.  Am I doing something wrong????  I had removed the heel straps too on the boots post my last email from you.  I did remeasure her feet post her recent trim and her feet are still in the parameters of size (1) boots.  Her right foot is slightly smaller than her left foot and that pad is more worn than the left foot pad????  But neither pad will last more than a few rides at this rate.  Both her feet are the same height at the heels and at the hoof walls so I am confused????  Any insights???  Help! 

Hi there,

 

Glad you're able to do some riding.  I think you'd find the thicker pads will work OK after they're smashed down a little bit.  They conform to the soles and frog well and can be used for a long time without falling apart.  I use the thin pads in pieces to further pad a frog or a toe in certain lameness cases.

 

That's cool that your farrier is willing to listen and learn!

 

Try some thicker pads, even though to begin with (first day or so), they will be slightly bulky.

 

Dr. Tom T.

Hooves trimmed too short

Dr. Teskey,

My farrier was here two days ago.  I thought he cut the hooves a little too short.  The next morning my horse could hardly walk.  His two front hooves were hot.  Legs are not swollen.  He's walking as though on pins and needles.  Should I keep him in, or should I turn him out?  There is sand and tiny stones in the turnout area.  Your earliest reply would be most appreciated. Thank you.  With kind regards.

Hi there,

 

You need some boots for your horse.  Click here to check out EasyCare's website.  In the meantime, get some rubber padding, or cut out a pad from a computer mouse pad and use some duct tape to hold them on his hooves.  This will give him some fast relief.  I would let the horse wander around if he wants to, let him decide.

 

Have your farrier order a book on natural hoof care, like "Making Natural Hoofcare Work for You," by Pete Ramey.

 

It will work out, but you want to try to avoid this kind of soreness after trimming.  It means that too much hoof was trimmed off, period.

 

Take care,

 

Dr. Tom T.

Laminitis in the rainy season

Dear Dr. Teskey,

 

My horse is having a severe reoccurrence of laminitis when it started to rain the last couple of weeks.  We have pulled her shoes and are following all of the methods suggested (freedom of movement with other horses, high fiber diet, using hoof boots, etc.).  My farrier is open to trimming the horse to the Strasser methods, but knows nothing about them.  He can only come out once a week.  I feel we are in an emergency situation.  What can we do RIGHT NOW to help her?  Your advice would be so much appreciated.

Hi there,

 

Often times, wet weather will cause a horse's hooves to soften and bend and flex more, causing them to feel unstable to the horse.  If this is truly a case of laminitis, realize that it has not simply come on "all of a sudden."  It has been coming for a long time, and the wet weather is simply the "last straw" for the horse.  All horses living in wet conditions should be provided some "high ground" to keep their hooves from getting totally water logged.

 

I don't trim horses like Dr. Strasser teaches, though I've learned a lot from her.  I would say I think more along the lines of how some of the other natural hoof care people trim.  See www.hoofrehab.com, for example.

 

Right now, it's important to be feeding grass hay only.  No alfalfa, no pellets, no grain, no fruits.  See www.safergrass.org.  Since this is a recurrence, do you have an idea what is going on with her metabolic and/ or hormonal status?  More and more we recognize problems with sugar metabolism in horses that have recurring laminitis, so diet usually ends up the number one concern.  On the hooves, toes should be brought back to proper break-over and heels at appropriate height.  Me saying this and you or your farrier doing it might be pretty different!  Certainly one of the more relieving things for these horses is to at least have some hoof boots available during the day.  There are pads that can be put inside the boots as well, and together they really make these horses so much more comfortable.  Click here to visit the EasyCare website to see more.

 

It's good that she is in with other horses for company.  Do what you can with the diet if you haven't already.  Check out some boots if you don't have any, and keep in touch.  We could consult more using photos over the email, too.

 

Dr. Tom T.

13 year old with navicular

Dear Dr. Teskey,

I read your article about navicular with great interest. I am not a vet, but a horse owner with many years experience trimming my own horses.  I have four horses.  Three of them are very sound with big, healthy frogs and beautiful hooves.  However, my 13 year old is very lame indeed and I believe he has navicular.

This horse has been barefoot for 3 years.  He was unsound in shoes, showed improvement after going barefoot, but has develoepd increased sensitivity in his front hooves and is very sore at present.

I will have the vet come and x-ray, I think, but I suspect he will only want to use the traditional "treatment" of navicular syndrome.

He will not use the back of his heels.  He toe-walks downhill, has a shortened stride and often trips. He is unsound even at walk on flat surfaces.  He is not pointing.  There is no heat, swelling or any sign of injury and the problem has increased gradually over time.

I keep his toes short, his heels low (though not as low as my others are.  I think it would be more painful for him to be set right down on the back of his heels).  He lives out and has no white line disease.  His frogs don't look great.  How could they when he won't put any pressure on his heel? But he doesn't have white line disease or stretch.

If you have any articles you can point me toward, or any ideas of who I might talk to about helping my horse, I would be very grateful.

Thank you for any help.

Hi there,

 

One of the better articles recently is by Pete Ramey at www.hoofrehab.com.  Using neoprene pads in side good-fitting boots really helps these horses get past the pain long enough to really start using the back of their hoof.  This is key for turning these horses around early on.  Once you start to get a more correct heel first landing and some better structure in and around the frog, digital cushion and lateral cartilages, these horses start to really motivate.

 

Certainly sounds like you're right on with what is going on.  Of course conventional "wisdom" will want to cover up his problem using special shoes, but by now you're seeing why they don't work.  The key is improving comfort while stimulating that back part of the hoof to grow stronger.  The pads in the boots do this, and the shoes with wedges, etc. cause even further damage/ weakening of the area.

 

Once you get the right boot/ pad combination (Click here to check out EasyCare  for supplies), hitting the trail will be easy and enjoyable, and you can get some quality time in while you're rehabbing at the same time.

 

Let me know how it's going.  If you want to do more in-depth consultation with pic's, etc, we can do that sometime.

 

Dr. Tom T.

QH with navicular

Dr. Tom,

 

I have a 11 year old Quarter Horse mare who was recently diagnosed with Navicular Disease/Syndrome.  We did blocks prior to the X-rays to confirm that there is pain in both front feet.  I had notice that she had been pointing her left front leg when she was standing in the pasture and she had also seemed a bit short strided recently. Hmmmm, I wanted to rule out a soft tissue injury or the possibility of a case of laminitis.   She is a trail horse and I have owned her for 6 years.  She was barefoot for the first three years that I owned her.  I let myself get talked into shoeing her, during the riding season, for the past three years.  She is always barefoot over the winter and yes I ride in the winter.  The first year I let it happen because my farrier took her too short and she was gimpy. I was headed out of town on a ride soooo??  My riding buddies said you NEED to shoe her.  Ok???  I left her in shoes the entire season since I had some rocky rides to go on.  The next season I started her out barefoot but as the riding season went on she appeared to be wearing her feet more than usual so I looked into Old Mac boots.  I followed the measurement guidelines of this boot and was able to borrow the right size to try.  I made sure her feet had recently been trimmed prior to trying them.  They didn't seem to fit right, so I had the farrier put shoes back on her.  She wore shoes again for the remainder of the season.  This year my vet scolded me about even thinking about starting the season without shoes.  So Duh,  I must be a slow learner:  I had shoes put on in early May and headed out for the first big ride of the season in Northern Minnesota over Mothers Day weekend.  She contracted Erhlichia on that ride and 6 days later spiked a fever of 106 degrees. Yikes!  She was treated for 7 days with oxytetracycline.  Once she had recovered from that I noticed she was showing some of what I would call fever rings on her front feet.  My farrier came out and reset her shoes on our regular 7 week scheduled date.  She just didn't seem herself and as the weeks passed I noticed that she did not appear to be loading her front end and would point her left foot out in front of herself more often than not while resting.  Hmmmm.  She was 5 weeks out on this set of shoes when I called my farrier and asked him to come look.  He had me move her and said he couldn't really see anything???  I asked him to hoof test her.  I think we were both surprised when she tested positive on not only her left foot but her right one too.  All my farrier had to do was mention the word laminitis and I was in a panic.  He suggested rim pads, soaking her feet twice daily and bute for three days.  He also suggested a follow up call to my vet if I did not see improvement.  I should probably stop here long enough to say I do really like my farrier and my vet so I am quick to take their advice but ALWAYS ask a lot of questions.  I asked my farrier if perhaps we should just pull her shoes but his response was NO, that could make her more sore! We have had almost no rain in Minnesota this season and the ground is extra hard.  OK, rim pads, soaking and bute it was.  Ruby appeared to be comfortable while on the bute but post that she was doing even more toe pointing so I called a vet I don't normally use and had him come (he has a portable digital X-ray machine).  The outside temperature here was 100 degrees and I didn't want to haul my mare to any of the big clinics in my area in that heat.  The vet who did the X-rays explained he would have to pull her shoes and pads.  At that point they had been on for only a few weeks but my response was PLEASE DO!

Needless to say the *navicular news was not what I had hoped for.  My regular vet was out of town so I wasn't able to visit with him about the results until the following week.  This was good since it took me that long to get my act together and stop crying so I could do some research.

 

Post the X-rays I put her on bute again.  3 grams for the first 3 days then 2 grams for the next three days then 1 gram for three more days.  The vet who had x-rayed her for me suggested egg butt or bar shoes, he mentioned isoxsuprine and the possibility of having her nerved.  WHOA!!!!  I explained that I had some previous experience in dealing with a horse with navicular and NERVING was out.  I did not think isoxsuprine worked and if the idea of trying to restore circulation to her feet was right why would I nail on MORE shoes???  I think he may have thought I was crazy when I said I will try her barefoot.  Oh well, I am sure he understood I was not trying to be rude but I was protecting my riding partner.

 

My regular vet and I had a follow up conversation about the fact that there are changes in her navicular bones but that I did not have previous baseline x-rays to confirm what her bones looked like years back so how could we really know what those x-rays really mean???  Also, since different horses respond differently to treatment there is not any evidence that one thing will work.  I explained that I was going to put her on MSM in addition to the probiotic fastrack that she has been on,  I had her toes rolled by my farrier and purchased a pair of easyboot epics.  Now what???  So far she seems more comfortable and I have ridden her a few times in the boots (I just got them).  She seems pretty darn good in them.  I am staying out of the arenas since the footing is deep.  I have ridden her bareefoot too in a grass pasture.  I want to keep her loading her feet.  My mare is out almost 24/7.  On a rare occasion she is in a stall but I do have stall mats.  She eats a small amount of grain daily and alfa/grass mix hay.  I board so I do not have control over the hay mix.  I would really prefer her on only grass hay and in a perfect world out on pasture 24/7 but that is not an option.

Everybody who knows this mare LOVES her.  She has her own little fan club.  I continue to get advice from everyone and am willing to listen to it all but have declined ideas about radical trims and shoes.  Your web site information confirmed my thoughts totally.  Thank You!!!!!!  Maybe I am not crazy after all and am on the right track???  Hopefully my mare will continue to improve.  I ordered the Pete Ramey Book to continue to learn more about natural hoof care.  I know my farrier will be open to doing what I think is best.  If by chance he isn't, I will seek out someone who is.  I have to admit, I laughed when a fellow barn boarder talked to me about a guy he knows who does natural shoeing.  I was polite but had to explain that my current thinking that there is nothing natural about nailing shoes on a horses foot but I sure appreciated the information and his concern.

I am looking forward to getting the Ramey book in my hands.  I need all the help I can get.

 

If you have any additional insight I would greatly appreciate it!

 

Wow, that's quite the story!

 

You've come a long way, haven't you?!  Those boots you have will work even better if you get some of the pad inserts for them.  Order from EasyCare the same way.  You will want the 'comfort pads.'  She will really have some relief (and therapy) from these.  I use them on all my navicular and founder cases to varying degrees and they are great.

 

Another book to get (you'll learn a TON from Ramey's book) is Jamie Jackson's one called "Founder."  Lots of good general information there even though you're not dealing with outright founder right now.  I'd say you're fortunate she didn't founder after that Erlichia infection.

 

Do you have someone reputable to trim for you?  Someone KNOWLEDGEABLE about all of this stuff?  There is a list of trimmers on the Easy Care website now.

 

You say that the hay mix with the alfalfa is not anything you can control, but you need to change that belief.  Better come up with a way to get her grass hay only and get her ALL the way out of a stall situation, or all your story-telling isn't going to have a happy ending!

 

You're on your way, congratulations,

 

Dr. Tom T.