Q & A with The Vet

Cancel the Surgery for My Very Navicular Horse

Dear Dr. Teskey,

My name is Mona Elston and I am ready to have my horse nerved this Tuesday.  After a year of “corrective” or “therapeutic” shoeing, my horse is still lame.  The thought of nerving him makes me sick to my stomach (especially after I read your article “Bringing the Sparkle Back in Crystal’s Life”.  My reason for nerving him is to get him out of pain and give him some quality of life– I have another horse I can ride.  I am just tired of seeing him in pain.  I bought him when he was 5 ½, he is now 7 and he was lame 30 days after I bought him.  I suspect they gave him a “30 day” injection in the bursa before they dumped him because the x-rays showed that the navicular disease had been there for some time.  I don’t have horse property so I have to board him so I am trying to do the best that I can do for him.  Is there any way I can call you for a phone consultation and if so, what is your fee?  I am at my wit’s end. 

Thank you.

M

Hi M,

There's an awful lot of information out there for you to read and explore.  As you've discovered, the surgery is simply a "cover up" for your horse's real problems.  You'll need to find someone in your area that is familiar with natural hoof care and can help you with getting some hoof boots.  Or, you can simply get some boots yourself as a very good start.  By exercising your horse in boots with the metal shoes pulled off, you may very well notice improvement immediately.  Visit EasyCare's website  to look at the various boots available.  Either the "Epic" boots or the "Old Mac" boots would likely work well for you.  Read Pete Ramey's website if you haven't already, as well as continue to do computer searches and find other sites that have good information.  Many sites have lists of trimmers by region.  Do a search for "natural hoof care trimmer" to find some of these- Click here is a to see a good one.

 

You're on the right track.  Keep up your research.  Get some boots BEFORE pulling the shoes- then get the horse's shoes pulled off. Do NOT have the horse trimmed at this time.  Walk/ride your horse with the boots on and you'll likely notice improvement very quickly, as metal shoes are not only painful for a horse but PREVENT healing instead of helping like many professionals will tell you.

 

Take care,

Dr. Tom T.

 

Dr. Teskey,

Thank you very very much.  I have canceled the nerving and I will try pulling Ziggy’s shoes and putting on the Old Macs and find a certified barefoot trimmer.  It can’t do any more harm and if nothing else, I am hoping it will help.  Nerving is definitely not the answer. 

Thank God I found your website and learned more about the nerving procedure.  It sounds like I dodged a bullet.

Thank you for your time,

M

Good for you, Mona.  I believe you'll have good success, and learn some very cool things over the next few months.  Knowledge is empowering and you and your horses will be better for it.

Dr. T

Treating Navicular

Dear Dr. Teskey,

Hi!  After being misdiagnosed for several months, my 13-year-old Appendix Quarter Horse Bugsy was diagnosed last spring with ligament problems.  When the recommended rest, etc., didn't cure his lameness as expected I took him to Cornell University's vet hospital where he was diagnosed within the last few weeks with fairly advanced navicular syndrome.

Their recommended treatment follows pretty traditional guidelines, with the Cornell vet fashioning modified shoes, and the vet recommending bute as needed, and so on, with possible neurectomy anticipated somewhere down the line.

However, a barefoot solution, with proper trimming, etc., intrigues me and I'm wondering if you can recommend any vets or other knowledgeable pros in my area I can turn to.

My horse is in the Sussex County, NJ/Orange County, NY area, which is just outside the greater New York City metro area.

I'm reluctant to proceed without the approval of a vet, so I'm hoping you can help me get in touch with one who's open to such treatments.  Those I've spoken to so far don't seem to approve of a horse with navicular syndrome going without shoes.

I'm also still in the process of determining just how sound my horse Bugsy may be.  He's recently been running around his turnout without too much trouble and last weekend I started riding him in a ring, moving at a walk and for a short time only.

Recent weather, as well as waiting for him to recover from thrush, among other things, have slowed my ability to move forward with him.

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated--thanks!
          --Evan

Hi Evan,

Finding a good trimmer/hoof care provider is more likely than finding a DVM to help you.  I am embarrassed for my profession to say you don't need a traditional veterinarian at this point, as they are much more likely to harm your horse with antiquated and useless therapies, injections, shoes, surgeries.  A trimmer will have infinitely more success with you and your horse.  You just need to find one!  My best advice is to steer clear of veterinarians that are not open to your horse "having his feet back".   Think about it, it's all the previous management and treatment/shoeing that has brought your horse to this end.  Using more "special" shoeing techniques will simply make your horse worse and get them further from health.

Run a search for "barefoot trimmer list" on your computer and you'll get lots of hits.  Ask around.  Word of mouth is likely a good bet, too.

Don't let the vets and farriers bully you or strike FEAR in to you.  Your horse can absolutely heal.  Just give him the basic ingredients and enjoy the ride.

Dr. Tom T.

Navicular Diagnosis... Finding Help

Dr. Tomas Teskey,

While searching the internet in hopes of finding the miracle shoe for Navicular, I ran across your article:  Treating Navicular Syndrome.

This is the second horse I have purchased that has been diagnosed as Navicular.  In my first search the future was always doom and gloom. So I donated the horse to a camp for troubled children after informing them of his diagnosed problem. The Farrier nor Vet seemed to offer any help.

In order to make a long story short. Can you tell me of anyone within a reasonable distance from Dickson, TN zip code 37055 that might possibly help me and my mare?

Sincerely,

RC

Hi there,

Check out EasyCare for their page that helps you locate people to help, as well as Pete Ramey's website Hoof Rehab.  Many of the other natural hoof care websites also have lists of people that are knowledgeable.  You can also check out The Horses Hoof, Bare Foot Horse websites.

Keep up your research.  You're on the right track now!

Dr. TT

Navicular Again

Dr. Teskey,

I recently read an article that you wrote about Navicular, and found it very interesting.

I own an 11yr old Quarter Horse that was diagnosed with Navicular in Feb. We put wedge shoes on him and he has been completely sound for the past few months.  I know that with wedge shoes they put more pressure on the front of his foot. My concern is that it is eventually going to cause more damage than good.

I have retired him from showing, and moved him to a barn where he can be out in the pasture all day. I wanted to see how he would do if we pulled his shoes, so I had them pulled 2 days ago.  The first day he had a real hard time getting around.  He seems to be feeling a little better today though.  I am hoping he keeps improving.

I am against having him nerved.  I want to know if he is in a lot of pain, and how fast he is declining.  I have read so many different articles, and they all say the same thing (put corrective shoeing on them).  I was just thinking he might do better barefoot.  I was just wondering if you had any suggestions on how to keep him healthy, happy, and sound?

Are there any supplements you could suggest?

Thank you,

N

Dear N,

You're on the right track.  Funny how the traditional "treatment" of navicular pain/lameness hasn't changed, and yet all those horses never get better.

Check out Hoof Rehab, and do more searches on the computer for navicular and barefoot trimming.  You'll also do a great favor to the horse by getting a couple of hoof boots and comfort pads for those front feet.   Visit EasyCare Inc. to learn more.  The Old Mac G2 hoof boot  they have work really well.   You only need to use them intermittently/when riding.  Also, having someone experienced in natural hoof care is pretty important.  There is a list on the EasyCare site and other sites where you can hopefully find someone close to you to help.

Keep your chin up,

Dr. TT

Navicular Treatment Failure

Hello Dr. Teskey-

I recently acquired a 6 yr old gelding as a rescue whom I was told had a shoulder injury from being a rope horse.  After bringing him home I learned through an extensive veterinary work up and X-Rays that he has navicular bursitis with bone loss.  He is very tender, especially in his right front foot.  I have a natural hoof care practitioner who has been working with him since March of this year.  He does not seem to be making much progress to this point, in fact this week seems slightly more sore and is walking with a noticeable head bob, which had started to become much less noticeable.  We have him in Easyboot Epics with Comfort Pads, but I am worried that he is not getting any better.  He is also getting Isoxsuprine and one bute tablet each day.  My farrier is wonderful and is trying everything she can and is even working with him for free as a case study.

Can you tell me if there is a time when you know that this method will not work?  I want what is best for this horse, he is beautiful and has an absolutely one of a kind gentle soul, however, I can hardly stand to see him continuing to live in pain.

I would appreciate your insight!!

Sincerely,
KJ

Dear KJ,

Most natural hoof care folks will tell you that at least one, and often times TWO years will pass as a horse gets steadily better.  If you think about how long it took for them to develop their deformed hooves, you can better understand that it will often take just as long to get them back to health. Sometimes longer (it's harder to fix something versus preventing it from getting broken in the first place).  You've only barely begun the process.

The isoxsuprine shouldn't be used.  It's been shown not to make any difference for a horse with hoof problems, and it can have toxic side effects.  Perhaps your veterinarian isn't aware of recent studies showing it doesn't help improve blood flow to the hooves. I would also discontinue the use of the Bute.  Again, it's been shown to actually inhibit healing and proper function in the hoof.

There are many other aspects to a successful hoof rehab program, such as nutrition, lifestyle (MOVEMENT), herd psychology.  There are many websites that are excellent in discussing these.  How the horse is trimmed is not the most important part of the program, so the actual trimmer is not the most important person involved.  In fact the trimmer should be out of a job if you provide enough of the other ingredients.

This may well be one of the hardest things you'll try to tackle regarding horses, but most times it's a hell of good learning process and satisfying in the end.

Dr. Tom T.

Please Help! Horse with Navicular Syndrome

Hello,

I came across your wonderful website online.  I have a horse with navicular syndrome.  He was diagnosed about 6 months ago.  He is an 8 year old Quarter/Thoroughbred gelding.  He is used for Hunter Under Saddle and Western Pleasure.  Once he was diagnosed with navicular he was put on Isoxsuprine and we put him in an aluminum egg bar shoe that is raised in the heel.  I do not like giving him this medication as I know it is not good for him.  Is there anything you can recommend?  I know you believe in bare foot, this horse has Thoroughbred heels... not much heel.  If we were to trim him and leave him barefoot how would we get the pressure off the heel to relive the pain?  I would greatly appreciate any advice, or if you could please put me in contact with someone that can help.  I love this horse will all my heart, he truly means the world to me and I want to help him in any way I can.  Looking forward to speaking with someone soon.

Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,

M

Hi M,

It's troubling how many horses are prescribed isoxsuprine when it has been clinically proven to offer NO improvement in circulation in horses, whether they have navicular problems or not.

Also, the object is to actually get pressure ON the heel areas, but with COMFORT.  This is accomplished with special pads inside boots which you can see at EasyCare Inc. Also, it’s very important to read Pete Ramey's website.  All the articles there are very good! Keep researching. You're on the right track!

Take care,

Dr. Tom T.

Navicular Horse

Dear Dr. Teskey,

I live in Westchester County in NY and I was researching treatments for my horse who has navicular.  He is a 14yr old Quarter Horse gelding and I’ve had him for about 8 years. I found out he had navicular when he was about 9yrs old and the vets put him on bute and isoxsuprine.  Well as years went on I saw that the isox wasn’t helping and he developed edema from the bute which he was on for about 4yrs.  About 3 weeks ago a vet came to look at my horse since his lameness was considerably worse and he said he had laminitis and Equine Metabolic Syndrome on top of the navicular.  I feel as if I've come to a dead end with him and I can’t do anything to get him out of pain.  The vet said that if the laminitis got better then we could think about nerving him to help the navicular.  After reading the article you wrote about side effects and how he could need it again in possibly 2-3yrs, I don’t know what to do.  I love this horse with all my heart and soul.  I will do anything to get him to be comfortable and not be in pain anymore.  I know that it probably will never happen but I hope you can help me with some advice as to what I should do.

Sincerely,

N

Dear N,

Certainly it's "late in the game" to be doing things differently with your horse, but I still think it's worth it for you to get someone to help you and him with a natural hoof care approach.  Read the   Hoof Rehab website to start with. Get some appropriately sized hoof boots and pads from EasyCare and get someone from your area to help you if needed.  Certainly there will be lots of damage in the hooves from the previous shoeing and drug use, but horses can recover from these things pretty well if given time.  It may take several months to years since he's been mismanaged for so long.  Keep in mind that the veterinarians and farriers have just been doing what they thought was best, even though it was wrong for the horse.  Everyone gets educated in situations like this, and the horse is along for the ride, probably wondering "I'm glad someone finally realized I just needed my hooves kept the way they are.  Without the crazy contraptions of steel and nails and the drugs that don't work."

You're on the right track.  Keep up your research.  Attend workshops on natural hoof care.  Get some books on the subject.  Keep your chin up.

Dr. Tom T.

when is there too much bone loss for unsuccessful barefoot rehab

Hi Dr. Teskey,

 

I am a professional trimmer with a successful practice.  There is one current challenge I would love to post to you.  I have a client with a newly rescued horse.  He is 5 and retired for over a year from roping (heading) due to 'navicular' diagnosis.  Long story short his hooves were a wreck!  Typical HIGH heels and very forward foot.  I have trimmed him 2x and he is improving, but does have rough days too.  His owner had him X-rayed a few days ago and the vet called me to tell me this horse needs 'ridiculously' high heels to feel better and the usual bute and isoxoprene with wedge shoes,etc.  Sigh.  Well I listened and thanked her and got off the phone.  There is considerable navicular bone loss according to her.  As a matter of fact she said if she had seen ONLY the X rays she would have expected the horse to be much more lame (like I said he is improving).  My question is at what point of bone loss is a barefoot recovery not likely?  The owner is beside herself.  It is very hard for people to go 'against' the norm and their vet.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!  I feel I haven't had enough time to encourage the healing of this hoof, but if we never get a chance to see these cases through how do we ever know?  Do you know of any case studies?

 

Sincerely,

 

P

Hi P,

 

Navicular bone "loss" isn't common.  Coffin bone loss is as you know with chronic founder.  I'm wondering if the veterinarian just means navicular bone changes/degeneration, but I suppose she could be seeing a large amount of pitting or cysts which could mean "loss" to her, rather than remodeling, which is more likely.  Keep in mind that the NB changes are in the largest sense resulting from changes in forces/footfall/circulation/heel structures atrophy.  Whether the horse has soft tissue scarring is the real important stuff, but x-rays are poor to find these changes.  More and more MRI studies are being done and we're finding impar-ligament, collateral ligament, joint capsule, scarring.

 

Five years old, just a kid not even "grown up"!  Give it time and see how good you can get him.  Age is on your side on this one.  Pads inside boots are magical for these cases...have you seen the domed pads from Easy Care?  I'd say that I've yet to see a case of lameness NOT get better with natural hoof care approach/boots.  Of course there are many that are dead because that wasn't good enough.  Most of those were due to human factors not living with the horse's needs.  There's lots of case studies out there.  Some are on the 'net, and others, like mine, have never been published!  I'm working on that.

 

Take care,

 

Tom T.

Navicular

Hi Doctor,

 

I read your article online when I was researching navicular disease.  The reason for my research is, I am looking at adopting a horse.  He is a 13 year old Quarter horse.  He was diagnosed quite awhile back with navicular and given to a Farrier who they thought could do corrective shoeing and help with the problem.  After awhile he was sold or given to another family who boarded him at my friends house.  They never came to see him or spend time with him, but did decide to go ahead and pay for the de-nerving surgery.  Shortly afterwards they left town leaving my friend to care for and keep Salty.  Since the surgery (which was about 4 months ago) he has healed wonderfully and is getting around really well with no signs of lameness.

    
After first meeting him I fell in love with him.  He is wonderful in every way, but my concern is, now that he has had the surgery, what can I do to help him stay healthy? Is it O.K. to ride him?

 

Please let me know what to do for him,

 

Thank you,

 

L

 

Hi L,

 

Do a quick internet search for "navicular barefoot" and you'll get lots of good sites come up that you can read.  There's a ton of information out there ready for you, and it will take a while for you to read just a small part of it.

 

Nerves regrow, sometimes with bad side-effects, so it's a good idea you're researching your options now before that happens!

 

Dr. TT

Navicular Syndrome

Dear Dr. Teskey:

We have a beautiful Paint gelding that we bought 5 years ago when he was 4. When we originally purchased him we had him evaluated and he had a positive flex test front right. He was not visibly lame but we were told to expect problems.  I'm a physician and my wife is a nurse, it was love at first site so we bought him anyway.  He has never been used much except for our infrequent lessons, but has always been shoed.  He was fine for the first 3 years, but after buying him a 30 acre farm in the hills with rolling pastures and a lousy caretaker, he turned up lame.

We moved him home, sold the farm and sent him for diagnostics and prescriptions.  After X-rays, Bone scan, Ultrasound and digital blocks, he was diagnosed as having navicular disease.  We were told to use plastic shoes, slight elevation of his heal, heal pads...etc.  We were also told to try him on Gallium Nitrate solution which we did for 9 months.  We have changed farriers and now have a well known local farrier who shoed for the Olympic venue here in 1996.  Nothing is working. He still runs around like a horse should and loves it, but pays for it later. Everyone is telling me he needs to have a Neurectomy(s).  I'm resisting the concept.  Can you help or can you give me any advice?

Sincerely,

R. B., M.D.

Hi Dr. B,

The main pathology we're recognizing with horses such as this is a lack of development along with atrophy of soft tissue structures in the heel region of the hoof, most notable the digital cushion and the lateral cartilages.  Horses like this have more fatty digital cushions rather than nice, plump fibro cartilaginous ones, and skinny, weak lateral cartilages rather than ones that are thick and filled with large numbers of veins. What's interesting is the role of blood in the hoof as hydraulic fluid, dampening concussion as a function more important than that of just delivering oxygen/nutrients to the hoof.

Also, the nerve net inside the hoof is intricately involved in regulating proper circulation, so neurectomy is an especially tragic and unfortunate procedure done to hooved critters.

The best result in improving these horses has come through the use of properly fitted boots WITH the proper pad system inserted.  Check out EasyCare’s website to learn more.  Also check out Pete Ramey's site for some excellent reading and ideas.  Run a search for "navicular boots pads" and you'll get some good pics and sites come up.

Take care,

Dr. Tom T.