Boot sizing and pads

Hi fellow team members - I was wondering whether most of you are able to use the same size boot with pads and without pads???

My mare has been doing quite well either barefoot or with boots, but I could see that there was still room for improvement. It finally took the pastures where I board to be fixed up this fall and gravel put in in high traffic areas for my mare to start improving again (since her hooves are kept drier). I am quite sure that her heels will continue to expand as well as get lower too with trimming. Right now, I use a size 0 in the Epics and Bares and foamed on boots. I worked with my Bares over the holidays and was able to get them to a tighter setting each day after riding in them and "breaking them in". Now I am able to still get them on and have them at the tightest setting.

But even at the widest setting on the Bares, there is no way I can keep a pad in there and have the boot fitting properly...same with the Epics and even with older "broken in" boots. What happens is I can get the boot on, but the foot doesn't sit low enough in the boot for me to be able to get the gaiter closed properly. During the spring and summer, I was able to put pads in my Epics and ride in them without a problem...

I'm wondering if I'm missing something or should I be getting a 1 for the time that I want to use pads to encourage further hoof development? She may very well end up being a size 1 in time, but is still clearly a 0 for the time being (for anything without pads).

Lysane

Comments

[Amy Sheehy]

Hi Lysane,
I have found that if the horse fits nice and snug in an epic without a pad they may need to go up a size with a pad. Mostly it is the horses that when measured fot the boots they lie within the "upper range" before you would go up a size. if they measure more in the "middle range" of the boot size they are usually fine to stay in the same size when a pad is added. I also have a couple of horses that have problems with rubbing until the pads "break in" and begin to conform to the hoof a bit. With those horses duct tape works wonders (sticking it to the horse where the rub stsrts) or another trick we've been using is standing the horses in their boots overnight (these horses are stalled at night) and usually by morning the boots can be readjusted (tightened to their usual setting) and they are ready for their ride and have no problems with rubbing. I hope this helps you!
Amy Sheehy

[Lysane Cree]

Hi Amy,

Yes, that does help. I think I may get a hold of some second-hand size 1s and see how they fit with the pads. Then I'd be able to ride in the 1s with pads

Guess it wasn't just my imagination! :)
It's very exciting to see her hooves changing though. If I can get some 1s and get my pads back in them I think it will help to keep a good contact with the frog while I'm riding. And I have some new and other still very useable comfort pads!
Lysane

[Karen]

Hi Lysane: It can take some time for the pads to break in and get an optimum fit. The new gaiters coming out with the elastic back will give a big more in the heel area and allow a more form fit during the pad break in period.

This is one of the reasons why I like to use well broken in pads before any endurance rides. A lot of people think the bads are no good after they have been squished - but they are generally still useable and it doesn't bother me when the outside rim of them may be squished because the pads are still providing support and cushioning to the rest of the hoof.

So far I have been fortunate to be able to keep using all of the same size boots on my horses after adding any of the comfort pads to them.

[Lysane Cree]

Thanks Karen. My problem is not being able to get the hoof in the boot enough so that I can even break the pads in (but the hoof fits in the boot without a pad in there)...
With a pad, the hoof goes in but the heel doesn't get down enough in the boot and the gaiter is sitting too low so that it barely closes around the pastern.
I thought of leaving the gaiters open and leaving the boots on while she is in a stall overnight, but I was worried about damaging the gaiter if she lays down or starts fiddling with them...

I'll try some old pads this weekend to see how the fit is. And maybe for new pads, I can duct tape the gaiter closed while she is in her stall so she doesn't step on it.

Lysane

[Lysane]

I forgot to mention -
I am looking forward to trying/seeing the new gaiter though! I always have a bit of trouble with the gaiter getting snagged under the heel even though I "train them" to stay back, which I then have to work back out. Not a huge deal, but I will be so happy if the gaiter stays more out of the way! :)
Lysane

[Dawn Willoughby]

Here's what I do: I always fit the horse without the pad. If there is no rotation, then add the pad. If the boot doesn't fit, go up a size. Just to be on the safe side check the fit without the pad first to make sure the movement is minimal. (because another option is another style)
FYI I have tried the red sole pad with frog support as a normal pad...it takes up more space but if I put the boot in hot water, it goes on nicely.
Dr. Bowker maintains that booting without pads is equivalent to periferal loading and therefore I will not sell boots without pads. Hope some of this is helpful

[Lysane Cree]

Dawn,
Do you mean if there is no rotation with the boot?

I can definitely get the 0s (Epics or Bares) on and they are on snug, but the hoof is in properly and no rotation. It is only when I put the pad in that they no longer fit.
I haven't tried the other pads other than the black comfort pads or the domed pads (also black), so maybe I should try another density (thinner pads).
I'm thinking of cutting the pad smaller so that it doesn't go right to the edges of the boots and duct tape it on the hoof if I need to keep it sitting in the right place.

Lysane

[Lysane Cree]

I cut my pads down last night so that they are a tiny bit smaller than the hooves and I taped them to the bottom of her hooves before fitting the boots. I was able to get the boots on, but the pads do need to be broken in for a more exact fit. So I think I will boot her up and leave her in wearing the boots overnight.

Ideally, I guess I should probably try the thinner pads, but at least I can get maximum use out of the pads I have at the moment without buying a new size boot. :)

[Leslie Carrig]

I always fit boots for my customers first without pads. I've never needed to go up a size to get the pads in and they all use pads. I do however have them get the gaiters wet and ride a couple times without the pads, if the fit is snug and/or they aren't real handy with getting the boots on. Your boots sound plenty stretched out. How long has your horse been barefoot? It's possible he went up in size as the hoof wall thickened out and the heels are widening. You said you were able to get the pads in last spring and summer. If you don't think that is the case I wouldn't hesitate to put the boots on with pads and just ride a couple times. It doesn't take long for them to crush down. Probably the Epics would be better for this. And of of course there is also the 6mm pad. Leslie Carrig

[Lysane Cree]

I got my Bares on last night with the pads I cut down and the hoof was in properly so that I was able to close the gaiter. And if the Bares work, the Epics definitely will.
I also took out the heels strap and put tapers in to try to maximize the amount of space possible. I left my mare in the boots overnight and the pads were squished down some by then next day so it should be easier to get them on next time.
I will have to see how the pads held in place with duct tape hold up while riding and maybe through mud, but it's a start. At least I can still work with the 0s I have and don't have to go up a size just yet.

When I was using the Epics in the spring and summer with the pads my mare was at the lower range of measurements for the size 0s, now she is in the upper range, so her heels are definitely continuing to expand. Yay!!

Lysane