Need help relieving heel pain!

Hi!

I've been browsing all of the articles and information on this sight, just to learn. :-) I was delighted to come upon this article that explains my horses behavior and odd front feet. The article is by by Chrisann Ware on Heel Pain. http://www.easycareinc.com/education/articles/problem_hooves.aspx

My Lusitano horse has been barefoot and in Epics for trails since December of 2006 when I bought him. He's never been lame or has had any unusual problems.  He had then short wide feet and still has them after 17 months of barefoot trims and care. The back feet are at least equal in length and width, but his front remain a little over 5" wide and a little under 4 1/2" long. Using Epics required some creativity, but they are working well. I now only need the back boots when riding over 3 hours or on a lot of gravel and cobbles. However, he will not walk on even one small stone with my weight and no front boots! Besides having odd shaped feet, they are very healthy and I need only to roll them (wet soft ground with rocks) and take away a bit of flare on the front. The toe does not grow, or is worn off, nor does the hoof change shape for the better with no shoes.

Celo is turned out at least 8 hours a day on well drained soft grass and is an active 8 year old seldom standing still. After all this time in EB's (with pads) and barefoot, I've been surprised he can't stand any rough surface with his front feet while I'm riding. I have a wonderful Barefoot farrier that comes out a few times a year to see our progress. She told me to take him out more and more without my front boots over time and that he had no pain in his frogs and good calloused feet. That was last fall... with a snowless and iceless winter!

Photo: Celo's short front feet, during last trim.

A link to his lovely back feet that need no trims other than a tiny mustang roll! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2004051220101443917VgDIjL

  Furthermore, there is the hard wear and on the front hooves.... not with a break over. Some times, Celo steps toes  first, other times he doesn't.  Still, he has no high heels from this and seems sound and willing. This manner of moving comes and goes, so I didn't worry. He's a higher stepping fellow and doesn't stride out much, especially in his walk. Other horses leave us behind when we walk on the trails! in the riding hall with no boots.

All of this has been nagging at me over the last year. One last thing I've noticed, but not understood.... In Celo's standing photos.... he seems to always haver his front feet tucked behind his shoulders... one or both! I don't think I have a single photo with both front legs in a normal position. his back legs weren't tucked under too, so once again I didn't put it all together until the article on heal pain.

Celo on vacation in my friend's pasture... on his toes.

SO my plea for help is here.... What can I do about this? The answer in the article was barefoot with boots and pads. We've been at this for 17 months with no changes. His frogs have good contact with the ground. I don't ever take anything off the frogs or soles, unless there's a pocket collecting thrush. I do notice the frogs don't grow much at all despite this. Celo loves to go and just waits for me to let him move forward, no mater how many hours.  I plan to try some G1 Old Macs on him for shorter rides.

Celo a few weeks ago in his Epics and comfort pads, on his toes.

Based on all of this, does heel pain sound like my horse's problem? If so, I really need advice on what I can do to help...  Supplements, pads, anything at all! Can this way of standing and moving be a habit from prior years of pain?

Thanks,

Jen in Germany   

 

Comments

[Anita]

Hi Gen,
It's hard to REALLY see what's going on with a hoof from a picture, but one thing that seems to be happening is that this horse is walking on his soles, as noticed by the upturned wall, bearing no weight. This to me, without further in-person observation, would probably indicate low-level laminitis, which would cause the sole to drop, and sit right on the ground, creating tender feet. I can give you a couple of suggestions that will help. The first one is to carefully monitor his diet, eliminting ANY molasses, grains, etc. Then I would give this horse MUCH MORE than just 8 hours turnout. Eight hours turn out is not enough for any horse, especially a horse that needs to see improvement in his feet. Monitor his grass intake, muzzling him if the grass is long or lush. The best arrangement would be a large dry lot with a controlled amount of hay (approx. 15 to 18 pounds per day). Frequent trimming is also very important to insure ideal circulation, balance etc. in the feet. Trim at least every 4 weeks. These feet have got way too much flare, and you probably won't be able to remove it all at one go, but with each trim you should be able to remove a little more. These feet are out of balance and I would definately get professional help with them to bring them back into balance for a few trims. Hope this helps!
Anita
www.shantaranaturalhoofcare.com

[Elizabeth]

Hi Jen,

Like Anita, it's hard to tell a lot from the photos, but I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth. As Anita said, it's really critical that the hooves be trimmed every 4 weeks. The photos seem to show some flare, which may be from mechanical stresses or from diet. The barefoot natural trim only works when combined with changes in diet, environment and exercise. Along with regular trims, feed only grass hay and any supplements that your horse needs. For example, here on the East Coast our hay lacks selenium, so that would be supplemented. The environment should be as harsh as that you expect to ride your horse over. Soft paddocks don't build hooves that can go over gravel footing. Add rocks/gravel, etc. to the paddock so the hooves get conditioned with every step. 24/7 turnout is the ideal, but if that's not possible, consider bedding the horse in 1/4" rounded pea stone. I've added that to my horse's stall and I saw positive changes in his hooves within 14 days. It needs to be 4" deep so that it works almost like a bean bag chair for the horse to lay in. It's super easy to clean as you just fork out the manure and the rocks drop through the fork. If you get smelly spots where the horse urinates, just sprinkle some lime on the spot and rinse it down through the rock with a hose or watering can. Exercise is also important--set up your paddock so the horse is encouraged to move to get water, hay, etc. You might even consider hand-walking to get movement.

The fact that his heel pain is continuing seems to indicate that his digital cushion in the heel hasn't developed enough to protect and support the heel. Heel-first landings are a must to do that. Sometimes a boot with a frog relief pad will start them moving well and as the cushion develops you start adding frog support and then frog pressure pads.

Also, looking at the photos, I had a question about whether the horse might have deep-seated thrush in the frog, central sulcus and/or collateral grooves. My horse was "owey" for quite a while and we discovered that he had very deep thrush. It took 6 months of constant trimming, treating the thrush, and regular riding to finally get to the final pocket of the thrush. There was no external evidence of infection towards the end of the treatment, but then, during a regular trim, the final pocket of the infection opened. Once it was gone his tender heels improved almost over night!

Don't give up on barefoot!
Elizabeth

[Elizabeth]

Hi Jen,

Like Anita, it's hard to tell a lot from the photos, but I'd like to offer my 2 cents worth. As Anita said, it's really critical that the hooves be trimmed every 4 weeks. The photos seem to show some flare, which may be from mechanical stresses or from diet. The barefoot natural trim only works when combined with changes in diet, environment and exercise. Along with regular trims, feed only grass hay and any supplements that your horse needs. For example, here on the East Coast our hay lacks selenium, so that would be supplemented. The environment should be as harsh as that you expect to ride your horse over. Soft paddocks don't build hooves that can go over gravel footing. Add rocks/gravel, etc. to the paddock so the hooves get conditioned with every step. 24/7 turnout is the ideal, but if that's not possible, consider bedding the horse in 1/4" rounded pea stone. I've added that to my horse's stall and I saw positive changes in his hooves within 14 days. It needs to be 4" deep so that it works almost like a bean bag chair for the horse to lay in. It's super easy to clean as you just fork out the manure and the rocks drop through the fork. If you get smelly spots where the horse urinates, just sprinkle some lime on the spot and rinse it down through the rock with a hose or watering can. Exercise is also important--set up your paddock so the horse is encouraged to move to get water, hay, etc. You might even consider hand-walking to get movement.

The fact that his heel pain is continuing seems to indicate that his digital cushion in the heel hasn't developed enough to protect and support the heel. Heel-first landings are a must to do that. Sometimes a boot with a frog relief pad will start them moving well and as the cushion develops you start adding frog support and then frog pressure pads.

Also, looking at the photos, I had a question about whether the horse might have deep-seated thrush in the frog, central sulcus and/or collateral grooves. My horse was "owey" for quite a while and we discovered that he had very deep thrush. It took 6 months of constant trimming, treating the thrush, and regular riding to finally get to the final pocket of the thrush. There was no external evidence of infection towards the end of the treatment, but then, during a regular trim, the final pocket of the infection opened. Once it was gone his tender heels improved almost over night!

Don't give up on barefoot!
Elizabeth

[Dawn Willoughby]

What a stunning horse you have!

I can't access the site with the photos. Please advise.

Does his concavity run right to the white line, aka laminae. It looks like it does.

Can you clean and pound his frogs without any concern on his part? You should be able to.

From the photos he looks overweight to me. This is a horse I would muzzle during the day and a few hours after the sun goes down, then take it off for the night when the sugar goes down in grass. See safergrass.com for more info from an agriculatural expert. You should be able to feel ribs. My guess is that your beautiful horse is also a super easy keeper. If he were my horse I would never feed grain or molasses. (check your food labels) We now have feed for the insulin resistant horse but mostly I like hay and grass, but they must be low in sugar. Check out Katy's site for how to determine that.

Here's a Pete Ramey check which may be hard to explain but I will give it a shot: get a hoof pick and mark the 3/4" (inches) mark or the equivalent in CM's on your pick. Get a ruler or your rasp...we just need a flat edge.

Now place your pick in the deepest part (close to bulbs) of the collateral grove (on either side of the frog), and measure how far it is to the top of his heel. You can sight it over the heels or use the rasp. Note where rasp and pick intersect. This will tell you how far up your lateral cartilages are. And how thick the sole is. They should both be about 3/4"; matching the mark on your hoof pick.

Now place your pick at the end of the frog apex. Lay your rasp from wall to wall. (like 2:00 to 10:00 on the bottom of the hoof "clock") This will tell you how deep the coffin bone is; another way of looking at it is how thick is your sole at the apex. That too should be about 3/4" for a horse his size.

Front and back should be about equal in a healthy foot.

Assuming you have a healthy frog...I mean tough as nails, you could safely start lowering you heels to the correct height, if in fact the back collateral groove measures deeper than 3/4".

If the sole is thin in the front, then your concavity won't reach to the laminae. Pete has a trick of beveling the heels but I can't explain the specifics here. I would have to send you a photo.

Let's say everything is picture perfect, and you carve some kilograms off your horse and he is still sensitive. Does he have rocks in his pasture? Horses get used to what they go on.

Here's a magical fix for all feet. Go to a landscaping company and buy a truck load of "pea" or "landscaping" gravel. Round stones the size of a pea. Ask the experts what you can do to keep them from sinking into the ground. (they sell permeable tarps)

Get your set up in the pasture right, put your stone "loafing area" where the horses like to nap or around their water so that all found feet are on the rocks. About 4" deep. 10' (feet) by 10' is fine.

You will have a rock cruncher in no time.

In the meantime, use your thickly padded boots and don't worry about it. (assuming the trim is correct)

Ask you trimmer if he or she has seen Pete Ramey's latest DVD collection. It's better than attending a seminar. I can't say enough good things about it. But I am a Ramey fan.

Keep him turned out 24/7 and ride the tires off him. Horses need movement and movement heals.

Hope this helps. email me the site of your horses feet if you want to.

Dawn

[Jen]

Hi guys and thank you so much for all of the ideas and suggestions! It's taken me a while to look into all of these things. i've had the vet out and the farrier is next...

OK, so many things to reply to!
1) Celo is far from an easy keeper. He needs tons of grain and hay plus lots of exercise to stay fit, or he loses his muscle and turns into skin and bones with his spine sticking out. He'd now at an ideal weight and shape for his breed. He still needs a bit more muscle on his crest, back, and butt. His shape looks funny to people with the average thin necked horse in slim profile, but for a Spanish fellow, he's looking great and needs even more crest on that neck! :-) Oh, and he DID stand this way too when he was underweight with no fat or muscle!
2)Since I board my horse, I have no control on the amount of turn out or conditions of the footing in the stall or pasture. I'm grateful to have this place with reliable care and any turnout at all. there is no other place with ANY turnout or that cleans the stall more than every three months (sometimes 2x a year) within an hours drive! Believe me, the idea of horse care in Europe is nothing like the US. It's been hard for me to accept this, but I also can't change it. Advice falls on deaf ears. :-(
3)When I posted this message and took the photos, Celo was still on winter turnout, no grass. They took a month to move him to full grass turnout, which was nice. Hew needs the grass since the quality of feed is poor. Rolled oats is my only choice in feed. If I buy others or add supplements, it will not be given to my horse unless i do it, and must be kept at home with me. I give these things when I go to the barn. All other stables here have been like this, or worse... much much worse. They keep $100,000 show jumpers in worse conditions than this!!
4) I file his feet weekly and have taken no sole or frog off of them in over a year now. I only work on the roll, flare, length, and heels if need be. These photos were taken after i left my horse at a friend's place for over 2 months while I was in Africa and Spain. He was on 24/7 grass turnout and she just kept him working for me, but did nothing else. The farrier was there for these photos, taking off that flare and everything else. it was interesting to see what his feet did all on their own! The back feet need only rolled, no filing or cutting. The photo of Celo outside in his paddock with his front legs under him was also taken at my friend's place. Odd that even with this soft ground he kept those legs back.

5) OK, I had the vet come out, The legs being held under the horse he said had been that way for so long, it will likely be part of him and a habit. It's not likely to change even if the original cause for him standing like this is gone.
6) I am well familiar with laminitis. Celo does not have it and the vet also found no signs. He'd also have his feet in front of him if he did. No digital pulse or heat. Only a pulse after I worked him, which goes away 1/2 hour later.
7) The vet found no signs of thrush, but here it is so common in this wet ground that he's unlikely to notice a small bit. Celo always has a little bit of thrush deep in the grooves on the side of the hoof. I desperately wish to cut it all away, but that goes against the natural hoof care and not cutting the frog or sole back?!! I add treatment for thrush every time i ride. I've tried all the US brands such as thrush buster, coppertox, durasole, something in a syringe, and even homemade paste from neosporin and lamisol. It never seems to clear it up, unless the frog is dried out in brief time of no rain. I really don't know hoe else to rid my horse of thrush!
8) Dawn.... your hoof measurements left me baffled! I did measure the grooves int eh hood and they were over 3/4" deep. I didn't understand the other place to measure...
9) I tried hammering my horse's frogs, but am unable to conclude anyt5hing from it. He is TERRIFIED of that hammer! He leaps away when I use it... before even giving a goods stroke on the frog.
10) ***** I DID dig into the frog very hard with a hoof pick that has a small screwdriver like end. On one front hoof, he leaped into the air when I dug into the deepest part of the groove, nearest the heals. :-(

Further updates and conclusions:
I will have may farrier come out this week for another trim and to look at the frogs. I am very concerned that the frogs do not seem to grow!! It's been over a year since single piece of frog has been cut off, except for the occasional flap that gets in the way of cleaning. Shouldn't the frog be a nice large bulbous healthy cushion by now??!! It seems it's barely large enough to come in contact with the ground and does not change in size or shape. It's like it's not growing at all! What can I do about this?? Pea gravel and changes in footing/ bedding are not an option. I have just bought dome pads for my boots since normal comfort pads are shredded after a few uses. His hooves themselves are hard as nails. Only the sole near the groves are soft and flaky white. my farrier has watched all the Ramey DVD's she can get (not easy to find in Germany and i have no $$ to buy her some) and wants so desperately to learn this natural trimming and hoof care. SHe applies all she has learned on her own horses and most of her clients are barefoot. Is there a farrier on this site who knows a little German and can help her find more information to learn from? She is bar far the best and most informed of the farriers in this area, for BR trimming and care. Please help her/ us!

From what I understand, it's not god to trim any frog or sole. Is my horse's case an exception? Can I cut these back to live healthy tissue??

From what Elizabeth said, it seems like only people with their own land and money can have a barefoot horse. I am bothered by this... I board my horse and he gets the best I can give him. He can't have pea gravel, special turnout, changes in feed/ hay and other stable care. It just won't happen. By her post, it sounds like i should just put shoes on him. If this is the way it must be to have a BF horse, I can see why so many people can't do it. I am very bothered by these comments. I'm sure it's ideal to have the horse make a life style change to go BF, but for your average horse owner... this is not an option. Even when I lived in the East Coast in the US, it was a blessing to find a barn with an hour of turnout and a few low traffic roads to ride on. Trails didn't exist... Yet millions of horses and riders exist in these conditions. To win people over to the BF and hoofboot way of going, there MUST be a compromise!

SO, based on what people have replied to... my horse could have very bad deep thr4ush that is hiding under healthier tissue. 1 1/2 years of topical treatment has not relieved even the small bits of thrush I DO see. Please help me to help my horse!!

BTW< he gets about 20-30KM a week on trails wearing front easy boots. (he won't go without them) The rest is is riding in the hall on and/shavings/clay footing that is a little deep, but not hard.

Thanks for all the good advice!! I HAVE cut back on my horse's grain intake, as long as his weight is staying the same. ;-)

Jen

All photos of Celoso are here: http://pets.webshots.com/album/559718108ZscOeu I have videos on Youtube under "jensmore" Celoso IS for sale, IF the right person comes around. I cannot take him with me to the US when I move back next year. :-((( He is almost finished in his training for use of me from my wheelchair, and IS completely trained to voice and weight. This horse is a true gem and deserves a loving permanent home, better than i can give. ;-(

[Joseph Reilly]

Wow, what a story.
OK I suggest you focus on the major issues; not fine points; many of which may be "cosmetic".

Thrush - where is the hore standing most of his time? If it's always damp - can you work that issue? By the way, apple cider vinegar is probably as good as any $$ product for thrush - but the cause may be continuous damp & contaminated footing conditions -(just a guess).

A product I use for racing is Durasole - used by many farriers in the US after a trim - really good for filling in sole porosity, drying out & desensitizing. It's all I generaly use for the rears in Endurance - but not to compensate for "environmental" factors.

By the way - any thrush issue will probably get worse, not better with shoes.

Frogs - they shed naturally during the year and grow back; but if this is continuous - again I suggest you look at the environment.

Sole - agreed, don't touch - regarding your "white areas" it looks like you are trimming the bars - that is fine.

Sounds like you have a responsive farrier - good for you - they can be hard to find.
(can drive you to trimming yourself full time...)

Weight - a friend up the road has an Andalusian who was diagnosed with "severe navicular" last year - my diagnosis was 200 lbs over weight
(due to spring grass).
Now (a year later) - weight dropped & horse is sound.
If you can't see his ribs; yes he's overfed.
Don't forget pasture forage quality changes very quickly - much more than your daily feedings.
I need to watch out carefully with mine during the spring period. One of my mares is very susecptible to "going soft" on spring grass.

Hoof/sole picture - looks nice and tight - don't worry - again; small "teaks" likely won't resolve major problems.

On your picture of him (as you have noted) it looks like he stands very much forward over his front shoulders - could be heel bruising or lack of frog - is there any laminitus in the heal area (easiest to see when the farrier trims)?
Simply look for red/brown along the white line;
particuarly at the "heal wedge"

By the way - he's a good looking horse -

just a bunch of opinions ..

best regards

Joe

[Jen]

Thanks Joe!

He is a fine horse, the most sensitive responsive horse I've ever ridden or owned. :-) I wish I didn't have to sell him when I leave here!

I don't know if you read both my posts... I guess so... The confusing part for me is that this horse is NOT kept in wet conditions?! His stall is dry and the pasture is well drained grass 1/2 the year and well drained clay the rest. Granted, it rains 300 days a year here, I swear! The deepest mud in the wettest winter paddock is 3 inches. However, unless we have a dry spell like this past month (when photos on newest post were taken), that frog never dries out. When it does, those grooves remain the only wet places. no other horses here have thrush, just mine. Actually, my previous Andalusian had it too, but it went away. This fellow, actually a Lusitano (few people know this breed), seems to have it come and go, but is it really gone... I'm not sure! how can I know? Can I slice away that frog and be sure there's no more underneath? What other causes are there for pain when I dig with a hoof pick? Refusal to go on rocks, even clay with occasional ones, with a rider...

I'll look for the laminitis again today. There are no rings in the hoof and no pulse before work. He is slightly anemic in the humid weather, but it's dry, rocky and hot in Portugal... much different. If he had laminitis, wouldn't he be standing on his heels to relieve toe pressure? He has stood like this for 1 1/2 years I've had him, so I never worried until he Ramey article I read. (darn it)I can feel his ribs, but it's the loss of muscle in his chest and but in the two weeks his grain was cut that bothers me. His girth area lost a lot too and it was hard to bring him up to weight for clinicians stopped telling me to feed him more. Instead of grain increase, should I add hay cubes or beet pulp? Beet pulp is easier to find here, cubes.... not sure. I can change the hay to silage (a bit more mild than US kind) . Do you have a photo of your friend's horse before/ after?

What do you think of this frog not growing into a lovely cushion for this entire time I've owned him? He has these short feet (4 1/2 inches long by 5" wide) and sometimes wears the toes off as seen in the photos in my older post. He's not getting much frog pressure either by this way of standing for his whole life, or because it hurts. Crud!

As for products, I've been using Durasole since December. I've seen no change in the sole or the frog. I have ordered coppertox to try next, but was surprised the Durasole did nothing! maybe I didn't have enough coats or something. ? I'll certainly try the apple cider vinegar in his boots. LOL Forgot about that one!

Thank you for your advice and encouragement! I don't know if he'll ever stand normal, but at least he should go fine with no boots for short walks to cool down, and not buckle and stumble on every hard object in the clay! Will LYK what happens today.

[Vanessa]

Jen,

The toe doesn't appear short at all - the breakover as a rule of thumb should be around 1" in front of the apex of frog. It looks like that's actually about right on your horse. They may LOOK short because the heels are high. Probably, as you have noted, because of pain in the back of foot preventing him from landing properly heel first.

Causes of pain:
1) That deep central sulcus definitely looks like persistent infection to me, especially given his reaction to digging into it - there should be NO reaction to that at all. Try *daily* application of the antibiotic/anti-fungal goo injected into the deepest part using a catheter-tipped syringe (long pointy tip on it that you can stick deep into the groove). It may take 6 weeks for it to clear completely.
2) Make sure to thoroughly clean out the heel corns and remove any dead sole that has built up there. Then if needed, trim the heels just until they are 1/8-1/4" above the healthy sole. Trimming them all the way down to sole often exacerbates problems with pain in the back of foot. Once I started leaving a little extra heel on my high-heeled horse, suddenly there was more and more dead sole to remove and more heel to trim as they started coming down on their own.
3) Even in the picture of after trim, there is a lot of flare in the quarters. I bevel this type of flare from the bottom of foot, taking it all the way to the white line. Especially in wet environments like you describe, you do NOT want to thin the wall by trying to remove flare from above as it appears was done. To illustrate, consider the horizontal line to be the bottom of the hoof as it's held up. Then take your rasp at a 45-60 degree angle to that as the angled line is: __\ You can safely rasp all the way to white line or even edge of sole if the white line is really stretched.

By the way, check the wall height on the medial (inside) of the hinds - they look high to me and it is very common for the hinds to grow/wear this way. It can cause eventual hock soreness as it makes the hocks twist and wobble and may prevent him from collecting as well as you would like. Dig your hoofpick in around the whiteline and really clean it out - that will tell you about how much wall is above sole.

Hope that helps, and good luck, he is a gorgeous critter!

Vanessa

[Vanessa]

Jen,

Forgot to add that copper supplementation is often helpful in persistent thrush cases. I use a complete supplement called HorseGuard (http://tinyurl.com/6eba2p) but I know there are others out there which have as much copper. Many complete horse feed products have a healthy amount added in also. He should be getting a bare minimum of 100mg of copper per day, and it's pretty difficult (maybe impossible?) to overdose on it.

Vanessa

[Karen]

I came across your dilema when I was looking for a "link" between horse hoof thrush and oral thrush in people. I acquired a Standardbred the end of June who was FINALLY diagnosed with deep seated thrush in the crack between the BULBS of all 4 of his heels. I cannot see the bulbs on your hoof picture. Jay was tenderfooted on gravel and blacktop, but not on grass (he is 22 and has driven all his life, but the last 4 yrs. w/o shoes). My farrier put drill tech driving shoes on the front which relieved the problem just a bit. When he came back to straighten a bent shoe that the horse caught on a wire fence, I pinned him down about the tenderness in the cracks of the bulbs. Then he diagnosed the deep seated thrush. He showed me how to clean them out as far down as the horse can stand it with a dull tipped screwdriver (or similar tool). Then roll a piece of cotton like a pencil shape about 3" long and tuck it (don't pack it), into the crack. Then apply a soaking of tea tree oil. Reapply the tea tree oil on the cotton which acts like a wick to deliver it to the damaged tissue up deep inside, every 3-4 days, and change them every 7 days. I have changed them once now, and have already noticed a difference! I did not have to DRAG him up the gravel driveway last night. When you can no longer push the cotton into the cracks, then the thrush is healing and the air will be able to get to it to finish the healing process. He said it might take 3-4 weeks of treatment. Don't know if your horse might have the same condition. Now I am wondering if I have ORAL thrush in my mouth from treating the horse. I have had a sore mouth and tongue and a NASTY taste 24/7 since about the same time that I got the horse. I guess it is considered a candida yeast type condition in the mouth whereas the equine hoof version is a bacterial. Natural remedy would possibly be yogurt with active cultures in it or see the doctor! I will try the yogurt first. Good luck. Karen

[bart]

Hi, how's your guy doing? I have an andy too! I have gone from a farrier paddock trim to a natural hoofcare trim to a strasser hoofcare professional. He was experiencing heel pain issues (I know this more from behaviour than lameness- reluctance to collect, running down hills etc.). He's never been shod, he does have underslung heels and contraction issues which we're working on. He has 24-7 freedom of movement, but it's wqet in winter and I only just put rocks in his shelter. My natural hoofcare trimmer wasn't taking back his bars, my SHP is, and he's got a lot better.
Thrush is caused by the decay rate exceeding the growth rate- if the bars are too long then there will be bar material pressing up into the frog corium restricting the blood flow. Until this issues is dealt with, the thrush will stay.
These horses have hooves designed for hard terrain.
Re: the comment on seeing the spanish horse's ribs- you're dead wrong, you don't see these horses' ribs until they are about to die! His weight looks ok to me, maybe a bit over, but he is not obese.

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